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Looking for God in the Details at Ground Zero: Does God have a place at ground zero?
nytimes.com ^ | January 9, 2003 | DAVID W. DUNLOP

Posted on 01/10/2003 1:15:33 PM PST by Destro

January 9, 2003

Looking for God in the Details at Ground Zero

By DAVID W. DUNLOP

A plan for the World Trade Center site by Think includes an esplanade running from the foot of St. Paul's Chapel. Within this park, it would relocate St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church.

DOES God have a place at ground zero?

This is not a metaphysical inquiry but a planning question, although the quick rejoinder to both might be: which god? Or, whose god? Or, what god?

As it happens, there is an answer. Among the program requirements laid out by the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation for the design studies of the World Trade Center site were the rebuilding of the nearby St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, which was destroyed Sept. 11, and the "recognition of the historic role of St. Paul's Chapel in the Fulton Street corridor."

To judge from the studies, however, the response of most architects to these requirements ranged from diffidence to indifference, though some attributed an innate overall spirituality to their projects. (The United Architects team likened the enclosure created by its five interconnected towers to the domed sanctuary of Hagia Sophia in Istanbul.)

The guiding principles for a memorial, released yesterday by the development corporation, speak of respecting the "sacred quality of the space" and encouraging "reflection and contemplation." Yet some visitors will surely wish to do more, to worship or pray.

Perhaps the last major public work in New York that placed organized religion on a prominent architectural footing was Tri-Faith Plaza at Kennedy International Airport, which stood from 1966 to 1988, with individual Jewish, Protestant, Roman Catholic sanctuaries overlooking a lagoon. The synagogue was the most explicitly iconographic, its facade composed of a 40-foot-high evocation of the tablets of the Ten Commandments.

Today, you would need at least a Quad-Faith Plaza, if not a Faithplex, with room set aside for those alienated or troubled by the presence of religious sanctuaries in the first place.

But leaders of the two religious institutions with the biggest stake in the redevelopment of the trade center site, the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America and Trinity Episcopal parish, insist that the churches' presence be acknowledged.

"We want to be part of the plan," said the Rev. Samuel Johnson Howard, vicar of Trinity, which includes St. Paul's Chapel. "Can St. Paul's and St. Nicholas continue to be good citizens and servants of the neighborhood? Make that possible for us."

"The designers and architects can make the memorial so bland, mundane and secular as to reduce its spiritual power," Father Howard said. "And they can certainly turn their backs on St. Paul's Chapel and any kind of restored St. Nicholas. They can isolate the site from the church and in so doing attempt to keep God out. But God is always going to be there."

Father Howard said Trinity appreciated those designs that provided open space around St. Paul's, in some cases reaching all the way to West Street.

Just such a greensward was proposed by a team including Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, whose overall plan has a dense cluster of towers. This would serve the transportation goal of extending Fulton Street river to river, said Roger Duffy, a partner at Skidmore.

"It so happens that St. Paul's is there and has become, de facto, the memorial piece," he said. "It had its own sacred quality and it has acquired new sacred qualities." Mr. Duffy said the greensward would offer a memorial site that could be used almost immediately.

IN the Sky Park proposal by a design collaborative known as Think, an inclined, elevated esplanade would run west from the foot of St. Paul's. Within this park, at Vesey and Church Streets, Think proposed relocating St. Nicholas.

"We thought it should be given a more prominent location," said Frederic Schwartz, one of the architects. "We do think the church is going to take on a new life and new meaning."

Under the Memorial Square proposal — notable for five fingerlike towers, one with a chapel on top, interlaced by horizontal crossbars — St. Nicholas would be relocated to a triangular parcel on Vesey Street, between West Broadway and Greenwich Street.

"It becomes part of the portal into the site," said Richard Meier, one of the architects behind Memorial Square. With St. Paul's only two blocks away, Mr. Meier said, the effect would be akin to the Piazza del Popolo in Rome, an entrance to which is framed by two 17th-century churches.

But Archbishop Demetrios, the spiritual leader of Greek Orthodox Christians in America, said his church's strong preference, buttressed by commitments from Gov. George E. Pataki, was to rebuild on its historical location at 155 Cedar Street, even though the new St. Nicholas would be more of an ecumenical pastoral center than a parish church.

"It is good," the archbishop said, "to have a symbol of the beyond and the unspoken."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: groundzero
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For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

21 posted on 01/10/2003 2:56:06 PM PST by michigander
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To: exit82
God was at Ground Zero before, during ,and after the attack.

9/11 was a wake up call for all of us. It was caused by the will of evil men, but it was allowed to happen to us.

What a strange, horrible god you worship.
22 posted on 01/10/2003 3:02:39 PM PST by flyervet
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To: Destro
Barf! Im so tired of everything being religionized.
23 posted on 01/10/2003 3:13:20 PM PST by Enemy Of The State
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
http://www.cris.com/~cymoore/Gallery/stcthrn5.jpg

Is that the small round dome on top?
24 posted on 01/10/2003 3:34:06 PM PST by swarthyguy
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To: swarthyguy
I think that is it.
I think that the monks also have a certificate of protection signed by Mohammed himself.
25 posted on 01/10/2003 3:57:33 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: exit82
All of the design analysis shows they should have fallen much sooner than they did. Interior colums disappeared in the impact.Jet fuel burning at horrendous temperatures weakened the steel at every turn.

Do you have a (non christian site)link for that statement. I don't believe that is true, In fact it took them a while to figure out why the Towers didn't survive.

The fact is everyone below the impact floors got out of those buildings alive

That isn't true either, Quite a few people were killed by falling debris.

The reason why so many people got out below the impact wasn't because of GOD but because of previous "Secular" Fire Drills.

I believe that God held those buildings up after the attacks

Well then why didn't God keep the Towers up permanately? Did the people above the impact somehow not deserve to live while the people below did? If god wanted to do something he could have caused a malfuntion in the south tower's intercom system when it was announced that "It is safe and everybody return to work" after the hit on the North Tower or even better God could have at the very least made it a cloudy day.

26 posted on 01/10/2003 4:00:44 PM PST by qam1
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To: exit82
Bravo
27 posted on 01/10/2003 4:17:56 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Destro
Hey Destro,
Good post.
I noticed reference to a "quad faith":
"Today, you would need at least a Quad-Faith Plaza, if not a Faithplex...

It's not directly mentioned, but implied in a quad faith would be some deference to Islam. At ground zero? I don't think so. What an insult that would be...

28 posted on 01/10/2003 4:27:46 PM PST by FBD
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To: exit82
Is Falwell an idiot because he told the truth?

No. Perhaps he is an idiot because God made him so. Adding to his idiocy was his assigning a smidge of blame to us rather than entirely to the bad guys who did this. He later 'extended and amended' his idiotic statements as any good pol might.

Any God I pray to does not allow innocent decent moral righteous people to die, and die a horrible death in flames or falling, just to prove a point. Nor allow the innocents on the planes that hit the towers or the Pentagon or the Pennsylvania field to die to prove the same point. Lott was able to get Him to agree to spare a bunch of very bad people if he could find just ten good ones. There had to be that many in the towers.

Sorry about your friend...and about all the innocent people who died.

29 posted on 01/10/2003 4:29:13 PM PST by RJCogburn
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To: Formerly Brainwashed Democrat
What an insult that would be...

Many Muslims died in the WTC, too.

30 posted on 01/10/2003 4:48:51 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: exit82; MissAmericanPie; qam1; flyervet
With all due respect, FRiend, God was not in the twisted steel of the Towers, anymore than He was in the twisted evil hearts of the terrorists that destroyed them.

It's no comfort to the 9/11 victim's families, to hear that God's will was carried out or that God held up the buildings, so that many got out alive.

No, to see God's will, one should look at the firefighters, police, and others, who made courageous efforts to save or help victims. God's will is carried out in the hearts of those that believe in Him, and those who seek to do what is right, not in physical objects that are subject to the very laws of gravity that God created.
31 posted on 01/10/2003 5:07:18 PM PST by FBD
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To: RightWhale
Sorry FRiend, but I believe the Islamic faith is an evil cult that has nothing to do with God. It is a sect of the Muslim faith that inspires terrorist's to do evil, and until I see them change their ways, I will not change my mind on this.

When you listen to Muslims talk, they say exactly what you just said; "There were Muslims in those buildings too."
The other folks didn't really matter, because they are considered dogs and infidels. Take a poll of most Muslims, and you will find that they believe Jews were behind the 9/11 attacks, not Muslims. Talk about distorted reality.

I just don't see God's love in the Muslim faith. I see an evil cult that hates just about everything, including women, Jews, and Christians.

Their religious cult does not deserve representation at Ground Zero. Period.
32 posted on 01/10/2003 5:23:36 PM PST by FBD
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To: qam1
Hmm. All those cops and firemen who perished musta gotten above the floors where the planes hit..
33 posted on 01/10/2003 5:39:54 PM PST by a_Turk
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To: RightWhale
These freaking people make me sick.
34 posted on 01/10/2003 5:41:28 PM PST by a_Turk
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To: Formerly Brainwashed Democrat
>>No, to see God's will, one should look at the firefighters, police, and others, who made courageous efforts to save or help victims.

Bravo! Or the guys who prevented the last plane from making it to the White House.. Man, sometimes I wish I was on one of those other planes..
35 posted on 01/10/2003 5:43:51 PM PST by a_Turk
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To: Formerly Brainwashed Democrat
>>When you listen to Muslims talk, they say exactly what you just said; "There were Muslims in those buildings too."
The other folks didn't really matter, because they are considered dogs and infidels.

Everyone matters FRiend. Only those who put themselves last matter more.
36 posted on 01/10/2003 5:45:49 PM PST by a_Turk
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To: RightWhale; swarthyguy; weikel; He Rides A White Horse; Shermy
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/820626/posts
37 posted on 01/10/2003 5:50:43 PM PST by a_Turk
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To: flyervet
"What a strange, horrible god you worship."

Nice sound bite. Do you really believe it? Bad things don't happen to good people in a world marred by sin?

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whosoever would believe on Him should not perish but have eternal life.

"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.

"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

John 3:16-18 NASV

"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Romans 5:8 NASV



A strange, horrible god? Perhaps your god is the strange and horrible one.

And please use a capital "G" next time you refer to my God.
Thank you.

38 posted on 01/10/2003 6:00:05 PM PST by exit82
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To: exit82; Destro; FormerLib; All; Balkans
FYI- Pedal in Peace 2003- Cycling Challenge for the Children of Serbia Part One of Two interview

Pedal in Peace

39 posted on 01/10/2003 6:07:38 PM PST by smokegenerator
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To: Formerly Brainwashed Democrat
With all due respect, your first statement is not true. God was there. If He wasn't there, then there are other places He could possibly not be; not much of an omnipresent God then,is He? A rather limited God He would be.

You say He was there in the way the firemen etc. carried out their duties. What causes a man to go into the very face of certain death if not a love for his fellow man?And where was that love first demonstrated or what is the source of it?

My friend who died trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ. He walked up those stairs with little hope of returning alive.
He went knowing that he might never see his wife and two teenage daughters again in this life, but certain of the next life. His did his duty to the point of death. And it was the love of Christ that propelled Him.

One moment in the stairwell; the next face to face with his Savior. You may not believe it--but you tell his elderly mom that; because she believes it.

"Precious in the eyes of the Lord is the death of His godly ones." Psalm 116:15

"For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, not things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus." Romans 8:38,39.

My friend believed these words, as do I.


I congratulate you on coming out of the belief in the Democrat party. But don't limit God's abilities or His whereabouts, due to how man looks at the physical world.
40 posted on 01/10/2003 6:18:57 PM PST by exit82
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