Posted on 01/12/2003 9:15:48 PM PST by Sparta
The analogy puts things a little to starkly, but it does look as though conservatives are practical libertarians and libertarians are impractical and utopian conservatives. Conservatives value liberty and seek to increase it, but recognize that there are limits to how much freedom and how little government we can have. Libertarians seem to be demanding the absolute and the perfect in the all to imperfect here and now.
Of course the closeness of libertarians and conservatives is a result of the times and the growth of socialist, social democratic, welfarist and regulatory ideologies. In the 18th century, libertarians were radicals and revolutionaries, and what conservatives wanted to conserve was, to a large degree, social hierarchy, state power and paternalism.
Things have changed much since then. Universal suffrage, socialist ideas, bureaucratization, and the development of the media have transformed the role of government and shifted the political spectrum. Free markets have come almost to be seen as the status quo, in spite of their massive transformational power, because governments have made even more sweeping and malign changes.
Conservatives and libertarians need each other today. On occasion, each will be able to make other alliances, but a permanent falling out would mean letting the socialists win.
So long as conservatives and libertarians concentrate on what is actually likely to be achieved in politics their interests will largely coincide. The recent explosion in the media, though, has created markets for radical or distinctive niche views, that have more to do with creating or expressing individuality, rather than with effectively organizing for practical and necessary political action.
I see, Libertarians are not party members because they don’t believe in the fringe of libertarianism, that being the LP. So the real libertarians are republicans, and believe more in GOP principles then LP. And of course this is because they have real morals.
Thanks for making that clear.
I wouldn't call anyone who supports gun control "conservative." I don't think that anyone who advocates a state-established religion is conservative, either.
I don't know what you mean by "sex control." I don't want the gov't teaching my kids to accept gaydom, but I don't think any libertarian would want that either. I also don't want hard core porn broadcast over the airwaves. But if libertarians had their way, we wouldn't have open airwaves anyway, with everyone and their mother broadcasting on whatever wavelength they want.
As for "drug control," drug trafficking is clearly a form of foreign and/or interstate commerce, and so the Constitution allows the feds to get involved. That's one instance where libertarian ideology is at odds with a perfectly constitutional form of government--although in fairness, the Constitution certainly doesn't require a federal drug trafficking policy.
That and post 42 are the funniest things I've read in a long time. They also hit the nail right on the head. Perhaps truth is funnier than fiction.
Your Personal Self-Government Score is 70%.
Your Economic Self-Government Score is 70%.
BUT I have been STRONGLY (and rudely BTW) told by the Libertarians on FR that I am NO Libertarian.
One poster said that no two Libertarians agree with each other
From what I've seen ... that is true
The only water pipes I have go into my kitchen and shower. So much for hitting the nail on the head.
He added that last part because there is so much difference of opinion on the subject.
In short though, it has to do with the use of the initiation of force to achieve what you want. That will usually decide the issue.
Most people believe things in degrees, libertarians believe that the use of force in the defense of rights is acceptable, but not the initiation of force to attain goals.
I basically agree with that premise
LOL! It's always been that way. Some excerpts from FR Forum 04/07/98
"the perfect form of government...drugs must be legalized in order to support a true Libertarian Society that believes in 100% complete civil liberties for EVERY human being....
You and the Reform people need to get together and get out the vote somewhere else. Go over and split the democrats. ...Another bilious epistle from one of our more notorious and logic-impaired, pants-wetting f*ckwit apologists for atrocity ...Vote libertarian, it's the only ethical choice ...they are here on FR to sap conservative votes. ...we don't need to split the republican party....party has no principals, it just watches polls, collects for the RNC coffers, and considers it "conservative" that they try to make communist-inspired public welfare programs run in the black... liberals are using the Libertarians to split the religious conservatives from the economic conservatives. ... it would be stupid to vote anything other than republican if you are serious amount making change... When you think of Libertarian think of Thomas Jefferson. ...Libertarians ARE not splitting the Republican party. ...make all taxes voluntary. ...FR village idiot...The Republicans stand for a little smaller, a little less invasive government but pretty much the status quo.... Please return to us from the Shirley Temple land....You are a waste of time. ... If you really don't believe in the LP then quit talking in our forum...the present Republican party is a joke.... Splitting the Republican party will not help you or the country and you know that. Why don't you put down your bong and join the Republicans instead of helping the democrats continue to corrupt this country and drag it toward socialism. ... uses foul language when confronted with a Libertarian point of view...they are motiviated more by an animus toward religion than a desire to reduce government intrusion into our lives. ... personal insults...republicans vote this crap all the time...How stupid can you get? ...panegyrics to the all-powerful State... the hostility towards Libertarians that I sometimes find among FR ...a closed mind! ..."Go divide the Democrats".... Looks like they sent out for reinforcements as they have bogarted this forum for three days straight....Wish they would go talk to some Democrats ...".
It may only seem that way. I know thousands of libertarians and I never met ONE who demanded what you claim seem to think.
We want things to turn around. We want to be going in the right direction, notwithstanding our ultimate ideal situation.
Ah, the Party where principle is for sale to the highest bidder, or to the highest.
Despicable lie. As usual.
They are not conservatives.
And if you claim to be one it's an insult to all the rest.
Of course, in order to advance their flakey social-Darwinism, they would have to essentially outlaw Christian charity. But such is the immoral and disordered nature of their humanist mindset.
I stand corrected. The correct title is;
WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A LIBERTARIAN: A Personal Interpretation
Despicable lie. As usual.
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