Muslim Woman Sues To Get Florida ID Card

WKMG TV ^

[peteram]

I agree with your post. What really gets me is that I understand that when American women go to Saudia Arabia - whether on corporate business or with the military - they have to abide by the Saudi customs of dress when not on American property. So, if American women have to abide by THEIR rules over there, why do Muslim women here in the U.S. insist on NOT abiding by ours.

[peteram]

LOL!!!!!

[Mulder]

She said her religious beliefs....

Only in a bizzaro world would "islam" qualify as a legitimate religion.

It is no more a legitimate religion than communism is a legitimate form of government.

[FreedomCalls]

She had a license. It was recalled. She had a valid Florida veiled license. In fact, she still has it. She was asked to turn it in and get her picture retaken. She declined and filed suit. A photo of it is attached to the article above. You can't say there's no precedent.

[blackbart.223]

"Hee, hee, my religion requires me to carry a Glock."

Mine requires a Berreta 92S. You must be an unbelieving heathen at the very least.

[peteram]

OK - From the most recent (2002) Florida Statutes, Title XXIII, Ch. 322.14:

1)(a) The department shall, upon successful completion of all required examinations and payment of the required fee, issue to every applicant qualifying therefor, a driver's license as applied for, which license shall bear thereon a color photograph or digital image of the licensee; the name of the state; a distinguishing number assigned to the licensee; and the licensee's full name, date of birth, and mailing address; a brief description of the licensee, including, but not limited to, the licensee's gender and height; and the dates of issuance and expiration of the license. A space shall be provided upon which the licensee shall affix his or her usual signature. No license shall be valid until it has been so signed by the licensee except that the signature of said licensee shall not be required if it appears thereon in facsimile or if the licensee is not present within the state at the time of issuance. Applicants qualifying to receive a Class A, Class B, or Class C driver's license must appear in person within the state for issuance of a color photographic or digital imaged driver's license pursuant to s. 322.142.

(b) In addition to the requirements of paragraph (a), each license must exhibit the class of vehicle which the licensee is authorized to operate and any applicable endorsements or restrictions. If the license is a commercial driver's license, such fact must be exhibited thereon.

(2) The department may require other pertinent information to be exhibited on a driver's license.

So, nowhere does it state that a persons face has to be fully exposed. I guess that up until now, that aspect was a no-brainer. I mean, it was implied that if you need to be identified, your whole face needs to be exposed. I'm sure after this episode, the 2003 Statutes will have something about this in them.

So she might have some legs to stand on here. But I still submit that driving a car is NOT a right, and that is what the state is going to go with.

[peteram]

OH, but WAIT!!! Further exploration of the Florida statutes shows this:

Title XXIII, Ch. 322.142:
1) The department shall, upon receipt of the required fee, issue to each qualified applicant for an original driver's license a color photographic or digital imaged driver's license bearing a fullface photograph or digital image of the licensee. A space shall be provided upon which the licensee shall affix his or her usual signature, as required in s. 322.14, in the presence of an authorized agent of the department so as to ensure that such signature becomes a part of the license.

So, there is a provision in the statutes that addresses full facial exposure on photographs. Hmmm......

[peteram]

Whew! Done FReeping, gotta crash. Best to all. I'll check back tomorrow.

[Terridan]

No apologies necessary! ;) By the way, I miss the "Dice man"!!!

[steve-b]

Even on FR, some people don't understand the difference between religious discrimination and discrimination based on other criteria that incidentally touch upon religion.

[OmeSaara]

Couldn't you find a better way to comment on her argument than simply resort to name-calling? You have shown no grounds for your contempt, so you resort to attacking her. And how is she not the "real deal"? What makes her un-American? The fact that she is Muslim? Oh, sorry...last time I checked this WAS a free country, and one of the fundamental ideologies that this very nation was founded on was RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. So what makes the "real deal" then? Must she be a Christian to get respect? OK, then how come, according to the Naples Daily News, "Courts have ruled that fundamental Christians who have religious prohibitions against having their picture taken can get licenses without one", yet it is appalling for this MUSLIM woman to have her license with a picture that covers her face? If they are going to make her do it their way, why not make everyone else have full photos on their IDs the same way? How is that NOT discrimination? According the the ACLU, what she is asking for is not something granted strictly for religious purposes either: "Convicted drunk drivers with revoked licenses are legally allowed to drive in Florida using only driving permits without photos, as are foreign nationals, those who failed their eye or written exams, and military personnel." Oh, OK, so they want to tell me that this AMERICAN MUSLIM MOTHER is more dangerous on the road than a convicted drunk driver or someone who failed their eye exam? That this AMERICAN-BORN WOMAN is more of a threat than a random foreign national would be?

It's attitudes like this that make Americans so hated in the global community.

[hellinahandcart]

Careful with those knees, OmeSaara. You'll hurt yourself if you keep jerking them like that.

[OmeSaara]

I mean all respect to you, but I must say that your comments show a total lack of understanding of the Islamic relgion. You watch too much TV.

"- if she's such a devout Muslim why does she need to drive? Her husband or brother should be chauffeuring her around.... "

Only in SOME countries is this the case, and this has nothing at all to do with Islam. If you would read the Qu'ran you would see that a woman is granted the same rights and priveleges as her husband. 1400 years ago, Islam was the first type of institution to allow women the right to vote, the right to own property, the right to accept or reject a suitor by her own freewill, the right to a divorce, the right to work, among other things. Just because some modern "Muslim" countries go against the original teachings doesn't mean that they are the standard to judge all Muslims against. Must we all be judged by the worst of us? Of so, then I guess Christians are in trouble...aren't the KKK Christian? And what about Germans...hey, they had the Nazis, you know. While we're at it, why don't we blame all white American men for Timothy McVey?

- what insanity comes over an American woman to cause her to convert to Islam?

I'm American, and I am Muslim. Trust me, I am totally sane. I chose this religion because it made sense to me. First of all, it embraces the teachings of the Jews and the Christians...all of the prophets from Adam to Moses, Abraham to Jesus, are all in the Qur'an. The virgin Mary? Same story in the Qur'an. The only difference is that you add the Prophet Mohammed. I look at it like this. First you have the Jewish teachings...the Torah, the Old Testament. God sent Moses the 10 Commandments and all was good. Then people started to stray a bit. So God sent Jesus, and lo and behold you have the teachings of the Bible...the New Testament, the Gospels of Christ. And all was well. Then people started to forget again. SO God sent the message AGAIN to the prophet Mohammed...not to disprove what Jesus and Moses and everyone already said, but to bring it to a new audience and repeat it, just in case they weren't listening the first few times! Plus, I like the fact that in Islam, you don't have a priest or a pastor telling you what to do. It's all up to you and all based on how you choose to live, but the media doesn't want you to know that. They want you to think Islam=Oppression, but that is just not true at all.

- why doesn't she move to Saudi Arabia / Iran / Pakistan or any other sharia-practicing country where she would feel more at home?

Just like many Jews I know long to live in Israel to live a more "purely Jewish life", I know many Muslims would LOVE to live in Saudi for the same reason...except for 2 main things. ONE) the Saudi government has corrupted the ideals of Islam and are not true to the teachings of it in all aspects (like the women driving thing and the forced hijab, which should be a woman's choice), and TWO) the Saudi government has closed borders and will not allow immigrants without a pretty darn good reason (like, you're married to a Saudi, or you're working there). It's not that easy. And as for Iran or Pakistan, I wouldn't call them shariah-practicing. If you ask me, the US is more in line with Islamic ideals than any country...because, like the US, Islam at the true core pushes freedom of choice and personal rights, such as innocent until proven guilty, that sort of thing. How ironic, then, that so many people see Islam as the US's enemy, when really our goals are the same?

[hellinahandcart]

Oh, OK, so they want to tell me that this AMERICAN MUSLIM MOTHER is more dangerous on the road than a convicted drunk driver or someone who failed their eye exam?

You really need to find out more about Sultana Freeman before you claim her as one of your own. She may be American, and she may be Muslim, but she ain't much of a mother. She was convicted of battering two three-year-old girls in her care. And that was after her conversion.

[FITZ]

She was convicted of battering two three-year-old girls in her care. And that was after her conversion.

Good thing to keep in mind when talking about this idiot.

[mdmathis6]

"Hee, hee, my religion requires me to carry a Glock."

"Mine requires a Berreta 92S. You must be an unbelieving heathen at the very least"

OH NO!......A NEW RELIGIOUS WAR.....(lol)
(when the shooting stops..I'll be the RN in your ICU rooms tending to the gaping bullet wounds in both your rear-ends! Give me any grief and I'll turn off your Patient Controlled Analgesia Pumps!)

[FITZ]

First of all, it embraces the teachings of the Jews and the Christians.

Sure ---why did Mohammed himself slaughter hundreds of Jews? And you want to worship a pedophile rapist? I guess that's your right ---but I would pity any daughters you might have if you believe some pig over 50 years old should be raping a 9 year old girl.

[Elkiejg]

I see you are new to FR:

OmeSaara
Since Jun 2, 2003
I am so many things, it's hard to put it into words. I am many things you may love, many things you may despise, and there are many labels you can put on me. I am a woman. Yes, born of the female gender, but don't call me a bitch, because I am kind. I am educated. I graduated with honors with a BA in Secondary English Education, and I am working on my Master's. I hope someday to obtain my PhD, but don't call me a nerd; I am intelligent. I am a teacher. Yes, I touch the future. But don't call me overworked and underpaid; I get the greatest compensation of all when I am there and someone FINALLY gets it! I am a wife and a mother. My husband is Saudi and our daughter is beautiful. But don't call me overprotective. I am loving. I am also Muslim. I was raised Presbyterian, and it is my choice to be a Muslim now. But don't say I am a terrorist, for I love peace and goodwill. I became a Muslim before I married, but my husband did not force it on me. I choose to wear hijab to cover my head, but don't call me oppressed...I am free.

So many things, and feel free to call it as you see it, but be careful to call it with TRUTH. That is all I ask, and I will bestow the same respect to you.

Now, in response to your comments to me:

You have shown no grounds for your contempt, so you resort to attacking her. And how is she not the "real deal"?

I have over 3000 'grounds' for my contempt - they all happened on 9/11 in case you've forgotten. By their own admission, Muslims are out to destroy this country. You have every right to 'adopt' any religion you wish - you are correct, this is a FREE country. I also have every right to condemn Muslims until I see evidence they condemn terrorism.

Am I wrong to lump this woman in with the 9/11 terrorists - I don't think so. And as you said yourself THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY - and I can say what I want. Unlike many, I will accept responsibility for my actions and words.

You say It's attitudes like this that make Americans so hated in the global community. And I say - I DON'T GIVE A DAMN what the 'global community' thinks. When has the 'global community' ever stepped up to put their lives on the line for America. We were the ones attacked, we were the ones who had loved ones die for no other reason than they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. And we are ones who have sent our young military to rid the world of EVIL, BARBARIAN muslim killers.

If my words offend your adopted muslim faith, I'm sorry. I'm still waiting for the 'peace loving' muslin community - here and abroad - to step up and condemn muslim terrorism. The silence is deafening.

If you would take the time to look into this woman's background, you would see that she's not the 'real deal' - she's using her adopted 'faith' to try and use our freedoms against us and our country. IF she was such a peace loving Muslim as she claims, why was she charged and convicted of child abuse in IL? Why wasn't she wearing a veil when her mug shot was taken in IL? This woman is a fake, that's one of the things about this case that angers me.

Also, for your information - I'm also a college graduate, retired teacher, daughter of a teacher and a doctor and now a grandmother. I was raised to tell the 'truth' AND accept responsibility for my actions. My family has served this country in the military for generations. So please, don't even suggest I don't have the 'right' to voice my opinion.

[Iwo Jima]

Senator "Sheets" Byrd, aka Senator Senile, wants his ID picture made with his Klan garb on.

[Rummyfan]

Please don't communicate with me any more. If you have married a Saudi that's all I need to know. My knowledge of Islam does not come from watching television - I lived in Saudi Arabia for two years and Turkey for one, so I do have some direct experience with Muslim societies. When your husband absconds to the KSA with your child, then talk to me about the wonders of Islam.

Masalaama!