Officers brace to be fired in Kmart raid case

Houston Chronicle ^ | Jan. 25, 2003 | RACHEL GRAVES

[FreePaul]

The only problem with "firing" a Houston police officers is the arbitration clause in their contract. The arbitrators usually reinstate the officers regardless of their offense.

[Dog Gone]

If both the officers' attorney and the union rep think they will be fired this afternoon, it seems pretty likely. Their actions that night have already cost the city over $100,000 in legal fees to expunge the arrest records of the people present that night, and the city faces millions of dollars in additional liability from the lawsuits already filed.

The public doesn't support them, and if the reports are true, the rank and file police officers don't support them. It's no secret that the Police Chief doesn't support them, and the District Attorney has already indicted them.

They're toast.

[Houmatt]

Then either you have not been reading any of Dog Gone's posts in this thread where s/he has come right out and said they did not believe these people did anything wrong (while presenting absolutely nothing to back it up) or you have a rather selective memory of your own.

People living in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

[FreePaul]

They're toast.

I hope you're right. If they get convicted it's a sure thing. Also there are a dozen or so other officers on paid vacation waiting for an internal police investigation. Seems that the police take forever to investigate themselves.

On another matter I think you are wasting your time arguing with you know who. Some people take ridiculous positions and then can't let them go. Sometimes medication helps.

[Houmatt]

I can think of no reason why the police wouldn't have made arrests for those things if they were present.

Do you think it may be because Aguirre said to arrest them all for trespassing?

But nobody has even hinted that drugs and alcohol were there that night. No investigation was ever conducted into the behavior of those arrested. So, again, we have to rely on objective witnesses. So far, there is only one, the tow truck driver.

We have to assume that they weren't.

You have to have something solid to make that kind of assumption. But, again, all we (and you) have is the tow truck driver, who has stated the exact opposite. So to make such an assumption is absurd.

[Charles Martel]

For the record, it is no longer a 24-hour store. This is due to lack of business during the hours of 11 pm to 7 am.

How about the Sonic, is it open later than 11:00 p.m.? Blocking access to the parking lot "after hours" may not be easily accomplished.

[toothless]

Then either you have not been reading any of Dog Gone's posts in this thread where s/he has come right out and said they did not believe these people did anything wrong (while presenting absolutely nothing to back it up) or you have a rather selective memory of your own.

The people didn't do anything wrong. All the charges were dropped. Please provide some evidence of anyone who is still charged with a crime besides the cops. thanks in advance.

[FreePaul]

I think that your friend is finally seeing a part of the problem with the arrests when he posts:
No investigation was ever conducted into the behavior of those arrested.

[Houmatt]

i've followed this from when it was first posted on fr, and this aspect has always been interesting. if there were a bunch of drunk kids out there, you know they would have been charged. ditto for finding, say several guys with more than a personal share of an illegal substance.

Let's get this thing out in the open here and now: For the purposes of this and any other discussion regarding this raid, we should refrain from mentioning drug possession and abuse, as none of the established facts (as presented here) refer to such.

were the kids remarkably well behaved?

No. Truth is, this had been going on for months before the raid (which was planned in advance) took place.

[Houmatt]

How about the Sonic, is it open later than 11:00 p.m.?

The Sonic is open until 2 am on Friday and Saturday nights. And the KMart was open 24 hours at the time of the raid. That is no longer the case.

[Houmatt]

All the charges were dropped.

At the request of the acting police chief, something that the cop haters here refuse to acknowledge.

[Dog Gone]

Your reliance on a tow truck driver, who had a financial stake in what happened that night, as your unimpeachable source for criminal wrongdoing is a hoot.

You won't take the cops' word for it. Their words are on this very thread. But, no, you won't believe them.

[Houmatt]

That's right. And I meant on the night of the raid (but you knew that, didn't you?).

As you also know of the behavior and complaints that led up to this raid.

Do you really expect any reasonable person to believe they (all 270 of them) suddenly chose one night to act civilized, and by coincidence that was the night of the raid?

That is just as preposterous as suggesting the tow truck driver sitting across the street triggered the raid.

[Houmatt]

Your reliance on a tow truck driver, who had a financial stake in what happened that night, as your unimpeachable source for criminal wrongdoing is a hoot.

Not quite as much as suggesting the driver is impeachable because he made money for doing his job.

That has as much credence as a tow truck driver witnessing an accident: He towed a vehicle away, so he cannot be impartial and objective.

You won't take the cops' word for it.

And what exactly did these (anonymous) cops say, other than they apparently objected to the raid?

[Dog Gone]

"I couldn't believe we were being told to arrest all those kids. It was just utterly, utterly senseless,"

What part of that statement confuses you?

[FreePaul]

...suddenly chose one night to act civilized,...

I'll take back my previous comment. You still don't get it. There were no arrests for "uncivilized behavior". The great majority of the people were falsly arrested for criminal trespass. At least one was charged with attempted criminal trespass. All of the officers present knew that they were making false arrests. Some are using the "just following orders" defense. The supervisors are either indicted or under investigation for their parts in the operation.

Assigning a noble purpose to a criminal act still makes it a criminal act. Cleaning up the neighborhood does not justify criminal activity by those whose job is to apprehend criminals.

[Hacksaw]

What these officers did was criminal, and outrageous, and they are not fit to be police officers.

Areesting people for loitering. BIG freakin' deal.

Maybe the "victims" should get free counseling.

[toothless]

[FreePaul]

No one was "areested" for loitering. I don't think that there is a law against that. They were falsely arrested for criminal trespass as a result of a conspiracy by police officers. Check the stories of what happened.

[Hacksaw]

You got your jackboot stuck in your mouth.

Wow. It took 30 posts. Given a choice between the cops and Libertarians, I will take the cops. LP's are way to emotional.