Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

What's Wrong With Cloning?
MHGinTN ^ | 1/31/2003 | MHGinTN

Posted on 01/30/2003 10:24:04 PM PST by MHGinTN

The President called for a ban on cloning in his State of the Union Address. So, what's wrong with cloning?

Every individual life is a continuum hallmarked by growth and development. We are invited, through the media, to differentiate reproductive cloning from therapeutic cloning, but both conceive a cloned individual human being, in vitro. Scientists seeking to exploit therapeutic cloning would have us believe that, because their goal doesn't include life support to the birth stage, their 'form' of cloning is okay. Far from it; it's a worse application of the technology. Therapeutic cloning seeks to conceive 'designer' individual human beings, give them life support either in a growth medium or a woman's body, then kill and harvest from these individuals the target tissues for which the cloned being was conceived.

It is important to realize that an embryo IS an individual human being: goals of cloning scientists bear witness to the hidden truth that they are conceiving a unique human being, whether for reproductive or therapeutic aims. Giving tacit acceptance to a proven lie --that the embryo is not an individual human life-- is bad enough, we’ve done this for more than thirty years, but to embrace cannibalism founded on such a lie is far more degenerate.

Tacit acceptance for manipulating individual human life has lead from in vitro fertilization to partial birth infanticide, proving the bankruptcy of continuing moderate acceptance. We are now staring at cannibalism in the name of whatever you care to call it. Even an embryo no bigger than a grain of sugar is an individual human life. Is it acceptable to kill that individual for their body parts? If you think that it is, at least know that it is cannibalism.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: cloning; invitrofert
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 261-280 next last
Will check in ocassionally, but must travel to a funeral tomorrow/today so I trust my fellow Freepers will have at it!
1 posted on 01/30/2003 10:24:04 PM PST by MHGinTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
'What's Wrong With Cloning', you ask?

...How's a clone of Barbra Streisand or George Clooney grab you?

-Regards, T.
2 posted on 01/30/2003 10:27:51 PM PST by T Lady (.Freed From the Dimocratic Shackles since 1992)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: T Lady

or Bill Clinton?


3 posted on 01/30/2003 10:31:19 PM PST by Paleo Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
It is important to realize that an embryo IS an individual human being:

If that is so, tell me exactly what is taking place in an identical twin embryo? Can one cell house two souls?

4 posted on 01/30/2003 10:32:46 PM PST by Texaggie79 (seriously joking or jokingly serious, you decide)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Skooz; E.G.C.; MississippiMan; st.smith; IM2Phat4U; Weatherman123; Dr. Good Will Hunting; ...
(((PING))))))
5 posted on 01/30/2003 10:34:49 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Texaggie79
Can one cell house two souls? Yes.
6 posted on 01/30/2003 10:36:21 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
I know many people argue against cloning on religious grounds and I consider myself to be religious, but I find no explicit reson why cloning should be banned using the NT Bible as a reference.

My issue with cloning comes into play when it looks like clones would be used as fields of harvest.

Hey, my liver is going bad so lets make a clone and cut that liver out and put it in me. Now I've got a problem if it takes a full human clone to produce my new liver. If science can clone just a liver for me and nothing else then lets get going on cloning.

7 posted on 01/30/2003 10:42:09 PM PST by PFKEY
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Texaggie79
If that is so, tell me exactly what is taking place in an identical twin embryo?

Science is absolutely firm on the truth that an individual life begins at conception. Only one of two possible answers must be the truth about twinning: 1) within the single cell at fecundation (conception) there must exist the genetic quantity of two or more individual beings, or 2) something is in the first single cell of twins that will split the genetic material soon to express the two individual beings, some anomoly that will act to 'split the road' that is both of them at the start.

The point to focus upon is both twins originated in the first single cell at fecundation/conception. Every individual human being has its beginning as a single cell, the first age of its individual lifetime. If, within the first five days of fecundation, a second identical individual, or even a third individual presents and grows along the continuum of individual life, each of those individuals had their origin in the first single cell of fecundation. There is no other truthful conclusion possible. Within the first single cell at fecundation are all the individuals conceived in that conception.

Since it is a fact that an individual lifetime is a continuum that begins at fecundation, at conception, it is glaringly paradoxical to arbitrarily remove any age along that continuum in an effort to prove a later start to the continuum (kind of like saying you hold a single strand of rope, but then you cut the rope a foot from your left hand and assert that the after-cut rope is the exact same length rope you held before you cut a foot off of it AND pointing to the short tag of rope on the floor, assert that that piece of rope was never a part of the piece you were left holding AFTER you made the cut). If a person tells you that he or she originated at 18 weeks from conception, or originated when she or he took their first breath, or originated when his or her brain first had a thought, or originated when his or her heart muscle first contracted, or originated when her or his gonads first functioned, just remember, the lifetime of every individual human BEING begins at their unique conception/fecundation and to choose some other point to believe the continuum begins is absolutely arbitrarily illogical, not based in science or truth.

So, yes, with first cell division, at least one HUMAN BEING is present on the continuum of at least one human lifetime. With identical twinning (or more for that matter) all conceived individual human lives of that single cell conception are present.

8 posted on 01/30/2003 10:43:05 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: PFKEY
My issue with cloning comes into play when it looks like clones would be used as fields of harvest.

Hey, my liver is going bad so lets make a clone and cut that liver out and put it in me. Now I've got a problem if it takes a full human clone to produce my new liver. If science can clone just a liver for me and nothing else then lets get going on cloning.

The problematic issue centers on the in vitro process. If cloning to reproduce a fully expressed, living individual human is the goal(and it's hardly a surprise there's nothing in the NT regarding cloning), no individual is being discarded. I still don't like the notion of designer individual human beings.

As to your other query, if science can someday grow organs using only your individual stem cells (and there now known to be throughout your body), I'm all for that!

9 posted on 01/30/2003 10:49:09 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

(and there = and they're) ...it's late here in East Tennessee, folks.
10 posted on 01/30/2003 10:51:00 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
I think we are pretty much in agreement on this.

The notion of designer individuals is a bit much for me to take and I suspect I would not take part in such a thing.

I don't image a clone would be anything other than a 'biological' replica.

A person is transformed into individual by their experiences and such so my clone might be subject to the same weaknesses as I am in that we might both die of heart failure but we will be individuals because our experiences are different.

11 posted on 01/30/2003 10:55:39 PM PST by PFKEY
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
With identical twinning (or more for that matter) all conceived individual human lives of that single cell conception are present.

If that is so, why then, cannot those lives be present in that single cell, that will eventually develop, even if they are to be 20, 30, or however many years later? Who sets the time limit? Why does that "anomaly" HAVE to be an accident and not instigated?

If said lives are present in the embryo to fill the amount of lives it will form before leaving the womb, what is to be said for the lives created from it after that time?

12 posted on 01/30/2003 11:08:10 PM PST by Texaggie79 (seriously joking or jokingly serious, you decide)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: PFKEY; lizma
The issues center on the denial that the earliest expression of the life brought into existence at fecundation is an individual human being at age 'start' (or, with identical twins, individuals). The scientists doing the cloning know an individual human life starts at conception, but they obfuscate that in order to fog the issue. It began with the in vitro fertilization debates, but the voices of 'life' were squelched. I fear the same squelching is sliding us into tacit acceptance for the cannibalism of embryonic stem cell and therapeutic cloning research.
13 posted on 01/30/2003 11:09:42 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Texaggie79
Do a google search on 'fetus in fetu'. Individuals have been known to carry their identical twin, undeveloped beyond rudimentary fetus, for a lifetime.
14 posted on 01/30/2003 11:13:11 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
Kewl. Never heard of that. However, how can we apply that to cloning? My assertion is that if one is cloned, their clone will originate from a single cell, as do we all. It will simply be shared with another, as with identical twins. Physically, I don't see anything other than a belated identical twin from a clone. Therefore, why ban it?
15 posted on 01/30/2003 11:22:32 PM PST by Texaggie79 (seriously joking or jokingly serious, you decide)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
I don't get it either. A clone is nothing more than a time delayed identical twin. I think people have watched too many monster movies and think you're somehow duplicating the persons soul or personality or something bizarre like that.

I do agree that experimental procedures shouldn't carelessly be used on humans so we should wait until its far more safe than it is now. But we have that for all medical procedures, I don't understand the logic in banning all cloning.

What really confuses me is how some Democrats are against cloning. They have no qualms about butchering unborn babies, but having a beautiful human life brought into this world is somehow evil/wrong? I don't understand it.

16 posted on 01/30/2003 11:25:30 PM PST by Godel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Paleo Conservative; T Lady
(LOL) Stop it! Multiple CLINTONS...you are grossing me out! Now I'm sure to have nightmares.
17 posted on 01/30/2003 11:26:10 PM PST by cpforlife.org
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Texaggie79
Again, it is the in vitro process that I would initially take issue with. The methodology isn't perfect and I don't embrace experimentation with individual human lives in vitro or in utero because of the 'discards' factor. Therapeutic cloning is a gross cannibalistic exploitation of human lives. If perfected (with no wastage), a belated twin would not be inherently wrong. The process whereby a tech conceives an individual in vitro, then removes the chromosomal ball (or 46 expressed chromosomes) before first cell division and inserts the chromosomes from an adult source is inherently wrong.
18 posted on 01/30/2003 11:28:05 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
"Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could they never asked themselves if they should!" ~ Jurassic Park
19 posted on 01/30/2003 11:28:28 PM PST by Mo1 (I Hate The Party of Bill Clinton)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
We are now staring at cannibalism in the name of whatever you care to call it.

Where has it ever been said that people will be cloned so they can be eaten?

Even an embryo no bigger than a grain of sugar is an individual human life.

No,it's not.

20 posted on 01/30/2003 11:29:06 PM PST by sneakypete
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 261-280 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson