From NASA engineering film: Sequential pix of debris hitting Columbia's wing

NASA via CNN Online & Yahoo News ^ | 2/3/03 | Wolfstar

[Wolfstar]

Released Monday morning, a high-speed NASA engineering film shows a piece of debris falling from the large external tank on the space shuttle Columbia's liftoff and hitting the orbiter's left wing. Bear in mind that these are extreme close-ups of a high-speed event. In the top couple of photos, you see only the top of the broken-off piece. Most of it is in the shadows. Depending on which clip you see and how slowly it is run, to the uninitiated person's eye, it can look either like the debris strikes the wing hard enough to pulverize the debris, or the debris strikes a glancing blow and bounces off in the direction of the main and booster engine exhaust.

[Vinomori]

THERE WAS NOTHING THEY COULD DO

This is one of the 17 Lies, in the book 17 Lies, this is one of them. They are lies we tell when our emotions are outweighing our brains.

[DoughtyOne]

I went to the site a few minutes ago.  It doesn't look like a very credible site.  I suspect it's a rather coy attempt to dump suspicion on the Israelis.

The black item that stuck up was the major problem for me.

[boris]

Doubles as a body bag once found.

--Boris

[meyer]

Lastly, who the hell are you or anyone in the general public to dare proceed from a premise that assumes the NASA flight folks would deliberately sacrific the lives of crews who are their friends and colleagues? Those folks know the crews — know each other in some ways more intimately that the crew's families. But the folks who work earth-side on those flights are human beings just like the rest of us. They are subject to fatigue, misjudgements, lack of foresight, budget constraints, and other impediments to success just like any other human being on the planet. The wonder is not that they fail from time to time, but that they succeed as often as they do.

Well said!

[El Gato]

You're bringing up great points -- but aren't these the same tiles that are so difficult to attach because they're so fragile to the touch? So it wouldn't require much speed on a hitting object to damage them, correct?

I suspect a good everyday analogy would be a moderately thin peice of concrete, although something more akin to styrofoam might be more appropriate. It has low sheer strength, and thus if you drop it, it's going break. Put it on top of something else, and in compression it's pretty strong.

Still the tiles are fragile enough, even when on the shuttle, that they restrict flight through rain when transporting the shuttle piggyback on the modified 747. (OTOH they might be worried about ice or hail imbedded in the rain). It's possible that the debris was ice, but for some reason they thought it was the foam, and that would make a big difference. Unless the foam is pretty brittle, which it might be, I can't imagine what one normally thinks of as "foam", pulverizing that way when it hit the wing. However, think of the stuff you can buy in a spray can to fill cracks around your house, that stuff is really brittle and crumbly when it dries. The new insulation is a spray on, so it might indeed be pretty brittle.

Somehow I think the focus on the debris hitting the wing during the ascent will turn out to be a dead end, and the actual cause of the crash something else entirely, but I'm not even sure myself why I think that.

[Vinomori]

right on Marlowe you are correct

[Rockitz]

Your analysis assumes that the piece of ice didn't have a rapid change in drag coefficient (i.e changed orientation), which it most certainly could have had. BTW, I think it's ice and have posted to that effect on previous threads.

[altair]

An escape pod or a vehicle incorporated either onboard or launched, in order to rescue a crew from a stranded ship is conceiveable.

An escape pod would have burned up too from that altitude and speed.

Why isn't there at least two tethered space suits available on board each shuttle for external repairs ?

Granted. Why were there not enough life boats on the Titanic? Sometimes it takes a terrible accident to enforce proper safety.

Why isn't there a repair procedure for damaged or missing tiles, when their loss could be catastrophic ?

Granted. I thought the tile design was stupid when I first saw it and never thought it would work. But how do you carry replacements for 25,000 different tiles?

However stupid the design of the shuttle is, it has worked expensively but safely for over 20 years. The point most people seem to be missing is that spaceflight should be so common by now that there should be flights every day and accidents (unfortunately) occurring all the time. Travel by airplane is quite safe, yet many people fear it because of the spectacular occasional accident.

[Howlin]

And excellent response!

[El Gato]

My problem with this is that NASA's attitude seems to be "nothing we can do, so we won't look to close at the potential problem in the hope that'll just go away."

OTOH, they probably did look at the debris "problem" and decided that it wasn't a problem after all and so did not require the sort of effort that they otherwise would have put in place as soon as they discovered it.

[boris]

"A telescoping arm in the docking bay would accomplish the same end.."

Which weighs more?...Which costs more?

--Boris

[Howlin]

The black item that stuck up was the major problem for me.

Poohbah said that must be the vent pipe for the still.

[Jhoffa_]

But how do you carry replacements for 25,000 different tiles?

Obviously, you cut them to suit.

What do you do when you break a ceiling or floor tile? Order one casted, flamed & delivered to fit the hole?

[demlosers]

Doubles as a body bag once found.

PRE Rescue Ball NASA Johnson Personal Rescue Enclosure
escape ball - suited astronaut would move it from
shuttle to shuttle.

Before the Challenger disaster, shuttle crews wore no space suits. This presented the problem of how to move them from one shuttle to another - if - it was possible to launch a rescue mission before the supplies aboard the stranded shuttle ran out. To address this problem, Johnson Spaceflight Center devised the most minimal spacecraft of all time - the Personal Rescue Enclosure (PRE) Rescue Ball. The rescue ball was an 86 cm diameter high-tech beach ball with three layers: urethane inner enclosure, Kevlar middle layer, and a white outer thermal protective cover.

Crew members were to climb into the ball, assume a fetal position, and be zipped inside by a space suited crew member. They donned an oxygen mask and cradled in their arms a carbon dioxide scrubber/oxygen supply box with one hour worth of oxygen. The ball would be connected by an umbilical to the shuttle to supply air until the airlock depressurized. The crew member would then be floated over to the rescue shuttle by the suited astronaut. The process would be repeated until the entire crew was moved from one spacecraft to another... the rest of it.

[DoughtyOne]

Take a look at the debris in relationship to the wing.  If you think the wing is 3 inches thick, then you'll obviously buy into the fact the debris is 16 inches across.

[Revel]

"THERE WAS NOTHING THEY COULD DO"

I have a suggestion. suit up an astronaut and send him out for a little inspection. If it looks bad then fly to the space station and wait for another shuttle. The Columbia could either be repaired in space by parts brought by another shuttle...or else it could just be sent off into space with no one on board. So I would certainly not say that nothing could have been done.

[Amerigomag]

2.67 pounds.......is the striking energy

"Pounds" is not a unit of energy.

[DoughtyOne]

If you read my post and extrapolated that I choose to believe, you're brain dead.

[neutrino]

IMO, the real problem comes down to money. We allocate 14.5 billion dollars - out of some 2 trillion - and yet we expect complete safety.

Why doesn't the shuttle have an escape pod? Money. Why doesn't the shuttle have jet engines so as to accomplish powered landings? Same reason. Why is the International Space Station designed for three astronauts instead of twelve? Money.

But we have 15 billion over 5 years for AIDS in Africa. (Sigh)

[demlosers]

dolly has fake boobs?

My dad would be disappointed...