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Observation on TPS damage on Orbiter
NASA photos | 2-3-03 | BoneMccoy

Posted on 02/04/2003 1:34:19 AM PST by bonesmccoy

In recent days the popular media has been focusing their attention on an impact event during the launch of STS-107. The impact of External Tank insulation and/or ice with the Orbiter during ascent was initially judged by NASA to be unlikely to cause loss of the vehicle. Obviously, loss of the integrity of the orbiter Thermal Protection System occured in some manner. When Freepers posted the reports of these impacts on the site, I initially discounted the hypothesis. Orbiters had sustained multiple impacts in the past. However, the size of the plume in the last photo gives me pause.

I'd like to offer to FR a few observations on the photos.

1. In this image an object approximately 2-3 feet appears to be between the orbiter and the ET.

2. In this image the object appears to have rotated relative to both the camera and the orbiter. The change in image luminosity could also be due to a change in reflected light from the object. Nevertheless, it suggests that the object is tumbling and nearing the orbiter's leading edge.

It occurs to me that one may be able to estimate the size of the object and make an educated guess regarding the possible mass of the object. Using the data in the video, one can calculate the relative velocity of the object to the orbiter wing. Creating a test scenario is then possible. One can manufacture a test article and fire ET insulation at the right velocity to evaluate impact damage on the test article.

OV-101's port wing could be used as a test stand with RCC and tile attached to mimic the OV-102 design.

The color of the object seems inconsistent with ET insulation. One can judge the ET color by looking at the ET in the still frame. The color of the object seems more consistent with ice or ice covered ET insulation. Even when accounting for variant color hue/saturation in the video, the object clearly has a different color characteristic from ET insulation. If it is ice laden insulation, the mass of the object would be significantly different from ET insulation alone. Since the velocity of the object is constant in a comparison equation, estimating the mass of the object becomes paramount to understanding the kinetic energy involved in the impact with the TPS.

3. In this image the debris impact creates a plume. My observation is that if the plume was composed primarily of ET insulation, the plume should have the color characteristics of ET insulation. This plume has a white color.

Unfortunately, ET insulation is orange/brown in color.

In addition, if the relative density of the ET insulation is known, one can quantify the colorimetric properties of the plume to disintegrating ET insulation upon impact.

Using the test article experiment model, engineers should fire at the same velocity an estimated mass of ET insulation (similar to the object seen in the still frame) at the test article. The plume should be measured colorimetrically. By comparing this experimental plume to the photographic evidence from the launch, one may be able to quantify the amount of ET insulation in the photograph above.

4. In this photo, the plume spreads from the aft of the orbiter's port wing. This plume does not appear to be the color of ET insulation. It appears to be white.

This white color could be the color of ice particles at high altitude.

On the other hand, the composition of TPS tiles under the orbiter wings is primarily a low-density silica.

In the photo above, you can see a cross section of orbiter TPS tile. The black color of the tile is merely a coating. The interior of the tile is a white, low-density, silica ceramic.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Editorial; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: columbiaaccident; nasa; shuttle; sts; sts107
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To: lepton; bonesmccoy
"A light fluffy object would decelerate rapidly from the air-resistance, but a heavier object, such as ice, would both maintain its forward momentum, and be more prone to flutter outward."

Yes, I know. I can't guess how much it weighs yet, because I don't know the air density up there...>10 mi I'm sure. It was 81 secs into flight, but I don't have an acceleration curve for the ship. If I use sea level air density, I get ~8 slugs. That's too high by at least a factor of 6. If the true air density is known the object would weigh less proportionately to dwhere it's at/1.2g/l...(approximate weight) It also assumes 1Kmph ship velocity. Getting an est of the mass of that object requires knowing the air density and ship speed well. Getting an est. for the relative speed from the film isn't.

That 30fps frame speed only allows a resolution of 33.3msec for time anyway and also they are are creating an MPEG from a higher fps video. To do that they cut the spatial resolution and have the same frame appearing multiple times.

The best that I can do with these images is to find either 150fps, or200fps, as an average speed for the debris to travel the 60ft from the nose tip to the impact under the wing. Those translate to average speeds of 102, or 132mph. There's an initial speed when the debris passes though a plane tangent to the nose tip. That's around 50ft/sec, or 100ft/sec. If the average vel is 132mph, then the debris impacted when it was going 244mph and an average deceleration of 330mph/sec2 is obtained. Some of the decelaration numbers I got, because of the graininess ranged from 310 to 480 ft/sec2, or 210 to 325mph/sec2. The driving force for the acceleration is the relative wind velocity, so as the chuck decelerates, the decleration decreases proportionally, because it's following momentum transfer.

"

That 30fps frame speed only allows a resolution of 33.3msec for time anyway and also they are are creating an MPEG from a higher fps video. To do that they cut the spatial resolution and have the same frame appearing multiple times.

"a flat piece of ice would likely begin coming apart just from the stresses when it turned perpendicular to the air-stream"

There were 2 pieces coming down. The bigger one, that hit the wing, was oblong with a length/dia of ~2.5. It had an angular vel of ~5rev/sec.

281 posted on 02/06/2003 2:24:49 PM PST by spunkets
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To: lepton; blackie
you can't see what they said you can see from the place the photo ws taken...and if you could see that portion of the wings, then you've got a big problem as the doors would be missing.




roger that
282 posted on 02/06/2003 2:38:56 PM PST by XBob
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To: lepton
279 - ROTFLMAO - "As I noted somewhere earlier today: We had to rebuild all of our nuclear warheads to comply with EPA regulations on CFCs in order to make them more environmentally friendly. The warheads used CFCs for part of the cooling system."

Got a super idea, let's just launch the old style warheads, with the freon, and we don't even need the nuclear portion, the CFC's are so dangerous. Let the CFC's take out the enemy.
283 posted on 02/06/2003 2:45:29 PM PST by XBob
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To: lepton
could be - "I interpret the "upward" movement to actually be lateral movement towards the camera."

I'm not too good interpreting this, however, for 'up and down', I guaged the movement as from the tip of the nose of the orbiter to the end of the black portion on the nose, a distance of about 6 feet.

But on my air force physical tests for pilots, I flunked the 'map interpretation' porition, where you try to identify ground targets from differnt altitudes and angles, so I will gladly concede to your interpretation.
284 posted on 02/06/2003 2:53:22 PM PST by XBob
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To: spunkets
281 - "30fps frame speed "




somewhere on FR I saw it noted that the NASA photos were at 97fps, if my memory serves correctly. Maybe a google search will reveal it.

hope this helps.
285 posted on 02/06/2003 2:58:36 PM PST by XBob
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To: bonesmccoy; wirestripper; the_doc
bonesmccoy seems to have neglected a few things in his analysis.
286 posted on 02/06/2003 3:06:13 PM PST by CCWoody
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To: XBob
These flicks are made for the public, alot of info is gone. NASA has the high res one's, but they didn't post them. If you right click on one of the MPEGS, or get the properties from the viewer you're using, it shows the frame rate. I used quicktime, 'cause I could single frame with the arrow key. It also gives the total film length.
287 posted on 02/06/2003 3:06:19 PM PST by spunkets
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To: bonesmccoy
bump
288 posted on 02/06/2003 3:15:09 PM PST by VOA
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To: CCWoody; wirestripper; the_doc
Care to be more specific?

Thanks!
289 posted on 02/06/2003 3:29:42 PM PST by bonesmccoy (Defeat the terrorists... Vaccinate!)
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To: bonesmccoy
I don't have a clue as to faults in the analysis.

I believe that all analysis is helpful to either eliminate or include items as contributing factors.

Our analysis at FR on any subject is always a work in progress, due primarily to missing information.

As the information flows, the analysis get perfected.

Still working, still looking, still impressed by what has been done so far.

Also, still in a state of shock.

290 posted on 02/06/2003 3:58:50 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: XBob
"It is strange to me, however, lengly discussion on another thread, by people who are familiar with it concluded that it was from the interior of the shuttle cargo bay (the top hat is part of the door locking mechanisms, and that the 'cracks' are actually the separations between the 'blankets/curtains', which are draped over the interior walls of the cargo bay, floating in no gravity.

not an area I am familiar with, but discussers were pretty positive that it was mis labeled"

Do you think we'll ever get the complete story?

291 posted on 02/06/2003 5:08:20 PM PST by blackie
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To: blackie
Do you think we'll ever get the complete story?




I don't know, but I do know a lot of people are really trying to figure it out.

Is there a coverup conspiracy? - IMO, not yet.

....well, probably not yet.

Not enough info available yet.
292 posted on 02/06/2003 5:31:27 PM PST by XBob
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To: XBob
"I don't know, but I do know a lot of people are really trying to figure it out."

There are many web sites and news gathering organizations working on this ... it's all very intersting.
I agree, there doesn't seem to be any kind of cover up going on.

293 posted on 02/06/2003 6:06:10 PM PST by blackie
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To: Gracey
Yes, I applaud the STS program's press conferences. It is very therapeutic for the citizenry to embrace the recovery effort. It is "our" space program. Open discussion of facts and analysis is crucial to retaining citizen support for NASA.

I appreciate NASA's comments regarding the mass of the foam.

Regarding the contractor team, it is not appropriate for NASA to request contractors to be silent and yet have NASA indirectly point a finger at those contractors. NASA is ultimately responsible and I appreciate Ron D's statements.

I'm praying for the team each night. God bless!
294 posted on 02/06/2003 9:57:46 PM PST by bonesmccoy (Defeat the terrorists... Vaccinate!)
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To: Jim Noble
Jim,

Regarding your view that "TPS is inherently dangerous."

The reality is that the TPS has been extremely reliable. The design has been stable and has done its job over 20 years. That is more experience on a reusable, non-ablative heat shield than any other system on the orbiter.

Orbiter TPS definitely has done it's job.

The other systems like avionics, SSME's, comm, SRM's, etc. have been far more UNreliable than the orbiter TPS.

At this point, TPS is not the cause of the disaster. The cause was something that took the orbiter TPS out of design limits.
295 posted on 02/06/2003 10:01:31 PM PST by bonesmccoy (Defeat the terrorists... Vaccinate!)
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To: CCWoody
STILL WAITING FOR YOUR SPECIFICS... :)
296 posted on 02/06/2003 10:02:13 PM PST by bonesmccoy (Defeat the terrorists... Vaccinate!)
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To: bonesmccoy
This has to be the most intelligent discusion of the subject on FR yet, but that's still not saying a whole lot.

Did I miss it, or is anyone talking about this being the heaviest reentry ever?
297 posted on 02/06/2003 10:17:17 PM PST by John Jamieson
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To: John Jamieson
Did I miss it, or is anyone talking about this being the heaviest reentry ever?

It has been discussed. As I watch the press conferences I am becoming more and more concerned with the references to maximizing "pay load"(that may not be the exact word). I am getting the feeling that the "Bean Counters" were demanding more paying customers. How much "income" was derived from those experiments on this flight ?

298 posted on 02/06/2003 10:55:34 PM PST by tubebender (?)
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To: bonesmccoy
In your original post to the thread 2 days ago you made great note of the color of the foam and plume. In as much as the tan color is mostly a thin outer layer shouldn't you give as much credence to the fact that the Tiles black surface would tint the plume as much as the foam coating ?
299 posted on 02/06/2003 11:01:04 PM PST by tubebender (?)
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To: John Jamieson
Did I miss it, or is anyone talking about this being the heaviest reentry ever?

Yes, at least I have.

Research noted the tank was one of two remaining heavies in inventory(I have omitted all the terminology), and the craft was the first and heaviest, although they removed much weight during overhaul, I recall 6,600 lbs mentioned. Third, the payload was a whopper, but it fit the launch profile fine and no difficulties were even considered.

300 posted on 02/06/2003 11:02:47 PM PST by Cold Heat
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