NASA news conference~~~ Live Thread

MSNBC | 1-05-03 | Dog

[Dog]

Post comments here..

[freepersup]

It's such a fickle technology (ceramic tiles) to begin with. I've read here, that the shuttle program is slated to be operational through 2020. So... they (NASA) will have their hands full in the mean time.

I make it sound like snapping fingers is going to make the tile problem go away. I do not mean to be so presumptuous. Throttling down...

a space plane with descent-speed control

Would that be accomplished with more power (propulsion) and an enlarged wing surface ? New technology (scram jet) ?

[freepersup]

Note to self- check sources at FR for accurate footnotes...

I was repeating a temp. from another post. (an ice co-conspirator)

[Rockitz]

I'm 99% sure it was foam, not ice.

I'm not, but I'll let you know soon. We're doing an analysis now. The foam may not have enough density to make it over to the shuttle wing across all those streamlines. Drag coefficients are the same for the same shape, so the acceleration of a piece of foam due to the aero forces may be too great when compared to a piece of ice. Hence, the foam with it's low moment of inertia is more likely to follow the streamlines without tumbling than an equivalent piece of ice.

[fooman]

I like the ISS recue vehicle idea, brilliant

[the_doc]

I don't know much about the space plane idea, but I know that it involves a capability of a powered descent. Some FReepers have said that it could obviate the exotic tiles.

[NonValueAdded]

NWS reports temp for Cocoa on Jan 16th, 2003: high 71 low 42 mean 57. I can't find hourly readings yet (most sites haven't processed the data yet) but with a 10:39 EST launch, it had to be in the mid 60's or better with several hours of full sun. No where near Challenger temps.

[fooman]

What bugs about me is that Ron did not come up a plausible counter theory.

I am an electrical engineer and a management consultant.

One must have hypothesises to either prove or disprove. Just saying that we dont believe that could have happened without counter proof is weak.

The before after photos do not prove anything, because the tiles could have been merely cracked or weakened, but not broken.

We do know that pieces were falling off in Cali and AZ. WE also know that the sensors on the left wing went out in sequence or showed high temps, consistent with heat events.

So maybe the foam did not damage the wing, but then what did?

Norad must track all space junk. Has NASA asked for a re-accounting of all the space junk?

In other words, what did cause the obious left wing thermal events?

I would like to see NASA come up with hypothesis, even if it is a meteor or little green men and purple women.

I then we can prove or disprove the hypothesis.

[fooman]

The x43 would do this. Another freeper told me that there are problems with the ramjets.

But we could take take these from the aurora, no?

[Moonman62]

The before after photos do not prove anything, because the tiles could have been merely cracked or weakened, but not broken.

Or the tiles could have come off later during ascent. I think it's a good idea that they are looking at other possibilites, but they can't just drop the foam theory either.

[the_doc]

Maybe. I would have to defer to others in this. (I can do some engineering mechanics, but my background is chemical engineering, not aerospace.)

[Moonman62]

NWS reports temp for Cocoa on Jan 16th, 2003: high 71 low 42 mean 57. I can't find hourly readings yet (most sites haven't processed the data yet) but with a 10:39 EST launch, it had to be in the mid 60's or better with several hours of full sun. No where near Challenger temps.

Knock yourself out with this link:

http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KFLCAPEC3&month=1&day=16&year=2003

The temperature was in the mid 60's. Humidity wasn't bad, but it was in the 90's until about 9am.

[NonValueAdded]

Excellent ... thanks!

[freepersup]

The (2) fatal accidents have been out of orbit so a rescue vehicle wouldn't have helped in either case. Except: ( >>> here's the hindsight 20-20 disclaimer folks <<< )

1- the debris strike on launch is taken seriously
2- the air crew is alerted
3- a plan is hatched to view the orbiter with onboard tethered space suits
4- conclusion reached that the shuttle is not repairable
5- a rescue vehicle prepositioned at the ISS for the express purpose of emergency rescues via orbital navigation docks with shuttle
6- shuttle personnel transfer into orbital rescue vehicle for return trip to ISS
7- Ruskies get a call from Bush, Pootie Poo sends his boys up to bring back stranded crew
8- damn Ruskies charge retail- 40 million a head for rescue AND make 4 launches
9- because freepersup sold NASA his idea for ISS based orbital navigation shuttle rescue vehicle for undisclosed millions, Hollywood makes movie of rags to riches story about freepersup's life
10- fooman gets 10% royalty check from freepersup, fooman deposits check and on the way home damn near goes postal on former employer

[freepersup]

says I won !

[Jael]

Because they can see it break off the tank and hit the wing.

That foam hardens. It would pulverize as the video shows.

[freepersup]

Very well- foam it is. I did notice that it appears to flutter or loop briefly in the burble, then seems to enter the slipstream which then takes it into the wing.

According to the latest news briefs NASA officials are shifting ever so slightly away from the debris strike theory as the route cause. Focus is shifting to computer readings directing the shuttles auto flight controls and the rising temperature sensors in the left wing.

I'm sure NASA is in a very preliminary investigative mode and very little has been taken off the table.

[freepersup]

doh! route=root

[XBob]

77 - "The fiefdoms at KSC were always a concern to me. You would think for instance that people like me who performed the pre-launch switchlist would be able to get a current set of panel drawings (they change on every mission). But noooooo..., we had to beg, borrow, or steal copies in order to do our job...

Ahhh, bureaucracies...

---

You should have insisted your MCC (Material Control Coordinator) see that you have them. (That's what I was).

Engineering used to blame everything on 'parts not available', then never get us any lists of 'parts required', until it was too late.

I used to have running battles with engineering to get parts lists and drawings in advance enough to get the parts on hand.

They began to hate me, because they lost their 'logistics umbrella', and I was forcing them to do their job in a timely manner to stick with the schedule.

Wow, some of the battles we had. I was banned from engineering for several weeks one time. However, after waiting a while and letting them stew in their own juices, and fall behind again, I mentioned at the daily stand up briefing that engineering was 2 weeks behind, and I was barred from engineering, they let me back in engineering. (They just wouldn't talk to me). It was amazing.

[XBob]

I did notice that it appears to flutter or loop briefly in the burble, then seems to enter the slipstream which then takes it into the wing.

---

you are the first one who has seen the loop that I have seen on the mpegs.

did you see the pictures of the underside when and where the foam hits the tile at the wheel well door?

[snopercod]

I went to my neighbor's house yesterday to watch the mpegs. His brand-new computer choked on them, too. So there is not much hope that I will ever see them...