US to punish German 'treachery'

The Observer (U.K.) ^ | 02/16/03 | Peter Beaumont, David Rose and Paul Beaver

[a_Turk]

>> Which translation do you think would be the most effective, the article, or the commentary?

I think the article offers more substance. The reader can render their own opinion based on the facts in the article and it having been published in a German paper exposing Schroeder..

Shame, shame Herr Schroeder..

[VaBthang4]

2003-02-05

[Kaslin]

I am all for punishing Germany and France, and I hope that the USA will give them just what they deserve. I have German ancestory, and I am ashamed of that bunch. So put them on the shi* list, and keep them there, until they straighten up.

I totally agree with you. I still have relatives there. My sister and her family and my brothers and their families, plus my cousins and their families live there. I am also ashamed of that bunch

[wonders]

I also wanted to thank you for the link to the Frankfurt Allgemeine Sonntagzeitung. Most enlightening article!

They are still saying "We are not convinced" even though their own CIA equivalent told them about that and food poisoning on the 9th of August 2002.

I read the whole thing and didn't find reference to the food poisoning bit, but my German's getting rusty these days. Can you point me to where it is in this article, or is that bit in another German news article?

Anyway, the article you cited ended with this:

Als eine der wichtigsten westlichen Industrienationen und aufgrund der unzureichenden Bevorratung ist Deutschland als weitgehend ungeschütztes Land ein besonders "attraktives" Ziel für bioterroristische Angriffe.

My rough and probably bad translation:

As one of the most important industrial nations in the West, which is to a large extent an unprotected country due to its insufficient stocks of [smallpox vaccine], Germany is a particularly a "attractive" target for bioterror attacks.

Hmm.

Now here's the part of the article I find chilling:

Den deutschen Sicherheitsdiensten liegen dokumentierte Erkenntnisse vor, daß Pockenerreger außerhalb der offiziellen Labore in Atlanta und Koltsovo illegal, z. B. in Rußland, Irak und Nordkorea, gelagert werden. Ebenso gibt es Hinweise darauf, daß sich Terrorgruppen um die Herstellung biologischer Kampfstoffe bemühen.

Again, my poor translation:

German intelligence agencies present documented findings that smallpox pathogens are illegally stored outside the official laboratories in Atlanta and Koltsovo, e.g. in Russia, Iraq and North Korea. There is likewise reference to the fact that terrorist groups strive to produce biological agents.

[nanomid]

We're big so we need more enemies.

Now, I think a Big Brother marshall law state sounds good.
Yet, I'm a libertarian on many topics. Why is that?
We have mostly free speech and a damn good blue print that works.
I know my choices already align. So I'm "more" free than someone who may, say, want to impose some socialist system.
Protecting the constitution == protecting your freedom.

[Stefan Stackhouse]

Yes, we disagree, but kicking the legs out from under an ally's economy in a fit of pique is idiotic.

Not if they have transitioned from being an ally to being an ADVERSARY.

It is time to face up to the fact that France, Germany, and Belgium are no longer our friends. And this is not just about Iraq. Trouble was brewing long before this, and an eventual falling-out was inevitable. The biggest mistake we could make is to continue operating as if they are still our allies, and that this is an alliance that needs to be "saved." It is already dead, and the sooner that we face up to that fact and act accordingly, the better off we will be.

[Borderline]

'All you GI's stationed in Germany don't panic! Czech beer is just as good as German and Czech girls are friendlier!'

Great point, I married a half Czech half Polish gal (from Pennsylvania) Never tried the beer but the girls are just right

[Stefan Stackhouse]

The truth of the matter is that Britain, Iceland, Spain, Italy, and Turkey are the ONLY European countries in NATO that are REALLY of much strategic importance to us; Portugal, Denmark (including Greenland) and Norway might possibly also be added to that list, but they are much more marginal -- the main importance with them is to not fall into hostile hands. All of these provide direct access by sea and avoid any serious overflight problems. Spain, Italy, and Turkey especially are all much closer to places where our forces will be likely to be needed. Britain and Iceland are essential for naval security in the N. Atlantic, with Norway, Denmark and Portugal being of secondary importance.

Poland and the Czech Republic become important if "keeping the Russians out of Europe" is an important strategic objective for us. I'm not sure at this point if it really is. "Keeping the French/German axis from linking up with the Russians and dominating Europe" might be a more realistic and important strategic objective.

I see absolutely no good reason why we should continue to need any US forces in Germany.

[Stefan Stackhouse]

My Wife said today that her and her family [ 2nd generation germans] has lived with the stigma of being germans.Most people had starting to accept.Then along comes a D#ck head like gerhardt shitt#r and it all starts all over again.

The problem isn't with the Germans over here, but rather with the Germans over there. THE DECENT ONES IMMIGRATED!

[ggekko]

" Less you forget today's throbing horde of entranced Huns...."

I believe that Nazi era was an aberration. I think the real driver behind the move toward "Fortress Europe" are the French.

After the Iraq situation has been settled I think it essential that US begin to use whatever diplomatic levers we have at our disposal toward steering the EU away from the "Strong federal" model that the French are pushing. Failing that we may be forced to form a rival trading area with some the "New Europe" countries along with the Brits.

[montag813]

The redeployment of troops would be explained on grounds of defense policy, not grounds of economic retaliation.

100% accurate. This silly article is like many, a cliched attempt to feed the Euro perceptions of a bullying "Cowboy Republic" in the USA.

[Mitchell]

If this threatened invasion of Iraq is just a hoax why should the US be so upset with France and Germany? Aren't these countries just helping them out with their plan?

I don't think it's just a hoax. We really are threatening an invasion, and the invasion will eventually come. It just isn't going to come tomorrow.

As for France and Germany, I have the impression that they aren't intentionally helping the U.S., that we're merely taking advantage of what we know their policy to be. I think that the U.S. government is, in fact, genuinely perturbed at the willingness of the body politic in France and Germany to dump their ties with the U.S., but we'll make the best we can of it.

I don't think the whole thing is just a pretense or charade, since it would be difficult to make the relationships with France and Germany whole again afterwards, given that the charade could never be openly admitted.

I have the feeling, however, that Russia may be different, that Putin may possibly be consciously cooperating in this bizarre game. But I don't know, maybe Chirac is too. (I find it hard to believe that Schröder is being purposely helpful, but I guess there might be other elements in the German government who are.)

[JSteff]

F_____ 'em. There are others who LOVE us and will be glad for our business. As my parents used to say; "Why bother if there is someone else who does appreciate you?"

Didn't when I was a kid but makes sense to me now.

[JSteff]

Who cares what they call it, just do it. Besides it is even more painful and a bigger slap when you give them a barely veiled excuse.

[JSteff]

Seems lick the Bulgarians would love to have us there.

[JSteff]

And just as good looking.

[JSteff]

Isn't that right. When the French, Soviets, and others wanted to bleed the Germans after WWII it was us who prevented that. We are why their inital recovery was so fast after the war.

We had a large part in making them, they need to see what it is without us.

[JSteff]

But those who CLEARLY circumvent our wishes we do not need to deal with any longer. Period.

Part of libertarianism is that you do business with who you want, when you want, and no one tells you that you need do do it for any reason.

That is only the case here. If what their policies are are contrary to our's we do not need them any longer. There are loads of other countries who do want us so WHY NOT take advantage of those situations that work to our favor?

Libertarian is very much a market based ideology. Isn't that part oflibertarian thought? Free use of capital will help to shape a better world by bringing in line those who don't provide what is needed within the guidelines of a lawful society?

That is all that is happening here.

[JSteff]

"Oops, we only meant to realign our alliances to more relevant areas. Sorry about the economy thing. Hey, how about I buy a cookoo clock?"

LOL and how I would like to see it happen.

[Michael81Dus]

Budweiser comes from Budweis. Now known as Budvar.
The Czech had a large group of Germans in their country, that´s why Hitler took the Sudetenland and short after that the whole Czech Republic.