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To: LogicWings
"Whether it is a 'conscious' imitation or not is besides the point."

No, it isn't "beside" the point, it is CENTRAL to the point. If ONLY intelligent entities can be shown to be responsible for a process (e.g. a computer software program), then it isn't very credible to suggest that non-intelligent entities are responsible for a that or an analagous but unknown process.

"Whether you want to admit that a highway is analogous to a blood stream as Base 4 is analogous to Base 2 in their respective functions is of no matter to me."

That's just jibberish. Base 4 math is an order of magnitude of complexity GREATER than Base 2 (i.e. Binary) math. Yet show me where Binary programs form without Intelligent Intervention and THEN we'll be able to discuss whether the vastly more complex Base-4 instructions in DNA could even potentially be formed without Intelligent Intervention.

But the burden of proof is on you. Where is that mystical non-intelligence-formed Base-2 software program?!

After all, I can show PLENTY of examples of such software that has been made WITH intelligent intervention (so I've done my burden of proof - that leaves you out in the cold again)...

80 posted on 02/15/2003 6:05:46 PM PST by Southack (Media bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
No, it isn't "beside" the point, it is CENTRAL to the point.

It is only central to the point because you insist it must be otherwise you don't have any point.

If ONLY intelligent entities can be shown to be responsible for a process (e.g. a computer software program), then it isn't very credible to suggest that non-intelligent entities are responsible for a that or an analagous but unknown process.

The operative word here is 'if' and it cannot be shown that 'only' intelligent entities can be shown to be responsible for a process because the whole universe is nothing but process. You just want to take one process, that can be MAPPED with a mathematical system we call Base 4, and ASSUME because it can be mapped in this manner that it MUST be the result of some 'intelligent entity.' This is why I said you reified Base 4 because Base 4 is a CONCEPT not at THING, and exists only as a CONCEPT in your mind, which your are mistaking as a THING, - the error of which is called Mistaking the Map for the Territory.

That's just jibberish.

Flattery can get you anywhere!

Base 4 math is an order of magnitude of complexity GREATER than Base 2 (i.e. Binary) math. Yet show me where Binary programs form without Intelligent Intervention and THEN we'll be able to discuss whether the vastly more complex Base-4 instructions in DNA could even potentially be formed without Intelligent Intervention.

But the analogy that DNA is a 'program' Begs the Question that it is one. If it were as intelligently designed as you assert it wouldn't result in two headed snakes, or babies without brains. I don't have to provide you with a Base 2 that is created by natural processes because there is a vastly more complex process, Base 4, that has been created by natural processes. Your argument here would be like me saying, "Prove that the Apostles could write before you prove they wrote the New Testament."

But the burden of proof is on you. Where is that mystical non-intelligence-formed Base-2 software program?!

Night and Day, your are the one. It's only you under the moon and under the sun! Good and evil, Right and wrong. Male and Female. Genius and fool. Yin and Yang! Shall I go on? See, as a former Daoist you got the wrong guy here. The whole can be viewed as a non-intelligence formed Base-2 software program. The proofs are endless and you cannot prove otherwise.

After all, I can show PLENTY of examples of such software that has been made WITH intelligent intervention (so I've done my burden of proof - that leaves you out in the cold again)...

But reality isn't 'software' that is just a faulty analogy, leaving you in the dark again. You haven't proven anything other than you make assumptions that you cannot back up, and expect those to stand as aguments.

The Burden of Proof is upon you to prove that anything, anything at all, in nature anywhere is, in fact, intelligently designed. The Universe seems like a pretty haphazard, irrational design to me. We could get exterminated by an asteroid any minute. The DNA program is so random and flawed it produces the most horrendous errors on a regular basis. The sun that I burned my skin with earlier is really killing me with the invisible and undetectable, except by the most sophisticated scientific means, rays embodied within its beautiful warmth.

There is a flesh eating bacteria in a local lake that kills you in a day if it gets in your blood stream, but only does so in one in a million.

The only thing that has ever raised human beings from the muck and mire of the swamp is logic and reason, in the full application of science, and a majority of the planet want to reject that in favor of various superstitions.

Intelligent Design my A*&^^&%#$!

96 posted on 02/15/2003 6:38:25 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: Southack
Sigh. Only intelligent entities make silicon wafers for ICs. Should we infer an intelligent creator from snowflakes and diamonds?

If a process occurs in nature, then on what do you base the claim that only intelligent entities can be shown to be responsible for that process?

257 posted on 02/16/2003 2:08:14 PM PST by jejones
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