THE STOPPING POWER OF DIFFERENT HANDGUN CARTRIDGES

2/22/2003

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

General Julian Hatcher, a noted forensic pathologist, in the early 1900’s developed a good formula to determine the theoretical stopping power of a firearm cartridge. His formula has withstood the test of time and validation from other studies and data related to stopping power.

You want a handgun cartridge that has a Hatcher value of over 50 for the most effective stopping power. Values over 55 have diminishing returns in that you don’t gain any significant increase in stopping power for the extra recoil and control you must cope with. Handgun cartridges that don’t make a value of at least 50, should not considered for self-defense. If the rating of your handgun cartridge is under 30, it only has about a 30% chance of producing a one shot stop. Hatcher Ratings of 30 to 49 raise a one shot stop to approximately a 50% chance. Ratings of 50 or higher produce a one shot stop about 90% of the time.

Handgun Cartridge Type ..................... Hatcher Rating

.45 ACP full metal jacket 230 grain .......... 49.1

.45 ACP jacketed hollow point 230 grain ...... 60.7

.44 Magnum full metal jacket 240 grain ....... 92.3

*.44 Magnum lead wad cutter 240 grain ......... 136.8

.44 Special full metal jacket 240 grain ...... 51.6

*.44 Special lead wad cutter 240 grain ............. 76.5

.41 Magnum full metal jacket 230 grain ............. 54

*.41 Magnum lead wad cutter 230 grain .............. 80

10 millimeter full metal jacket 180 grain .......... 50.3

10 millimeter jacketed hollow point 180 grain ..62.1

.40 S&W full metal jacket flat nose 180 grain ...... 53.4

.40 S&W jacketed hollow point 180 grain ....... 59.4

.38 Special full metal jacket 158 grain ...... 26.7

*.38 Special lead wad cutter 158 grain ............. 39.7

**.357 Magnum full metal jacket 158 grain ..... 32.7

**.357 Magnum lead wad cutter 158 grain ............ 48.5

.357 SIG full metal jacket 147 grain ................ 36.6

.357 SIG jacketed hollow point 147 grain ..... 45.2

9 millimeter full metal jacket 147 grain ............ 32.3

9 millimeter jacketed hollow point 147 grain ... 39.9

.380 Auto jacketed hollow point 95 grain ..... 18.3

.32 Auto jacketed hollow point 71 grain ...... 11.1

.25 Auto jacketed hollow point 50 grain ...... 3.7

.22 Long Rifle jacketed hollow point 40 grain ... 4.2

* Jacketed hollow points will have the same rating as wad cutter bullets if the bullet hollow tip is greater than 1/2 of the caliber of the bullet.

* .357 Magnum ratings are taken from a firearm with a 3 inch barrel. Longer barrels will raise the rating of the round.

[harpseal]

The rule of thumb was more ammunition rather than a handgun at all times. However, there were exceptions when one would have to carry a handgun because one expected one's hands to be otherwise occupied or as a back up when carrying M79 and a radio etc or when going after someone who was POW bait usually aircrew and one was probably going to be on the stretcher detail.

There also were those occaisions when one was sleeping in a supposedly secure area that the pistol was essential for the sapper inside the wire. Also there were occaisions when one would have to go exploring in a tunnel and then a handgun was all that one could take.

However, the big problem is that a long gun is just not socially acceptable to take arround with one in public in most cities these days.

[spodefly]

I see this thread is still alive after a week .... gotta love gun threads.

Despite all the good advice about handguns that start with a 4, I am still convinced that a weeny little 92F with CorBon +P 115gr. JHP's is a viable choice. The .44 wheelgun does look easier to conceal though.

[Travis McGee]

However, the big problem is that a long gun is just not socially acceptable to take arround with one in public in most cities these days.

A few Islamikazis in the kindergartens and night clubs and that may chnge over night.

[Travis McGee]

I don't see a long line of volunteer scoffers lining up to be 9mm test subjects.

And I sure do love these gun threads!

[harpseal]

A few Islamikazis in the kindergartens and night clubs and that may chnge over night.

The most likely response will be for the gun grabboids to try to ban more guns from Americans.

[lawdude]

If he takes your first shot, no matter the rating (.22's excepted), and you survive his first shot, you are likely to "win". Your second should be a kill (if you need it)!

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

I am still convinced that a weeny little 92F with CorBon +P 115 grain JHP's is a viable choice.

Any functional handgun is better than no gun at all. Keep in mind that your hollowpoints are only going to expand 60% of 70% of the time. Why hit them with two or three rounds when one .45 ACP or .40 S&W round will do the job? Keep in mind also everytime your discharge your gun in self-defense you may have a possible lawsuit on your hands if your rounds miss and hit an innocent bystander. My thoughts why I would not use a 9 millimeter for concealed carry.

[sneakypete]

Everything weighs somethinng, and a pistol is big chunk of iron to haul into battle, compared to the 60 rounds of M-16 ammo it kicks off your web belt.

True,but the pistol represents a spare weapon in case yours breaks or takes a hit that makes it inoperatable. Everybody has their own idea about what's best,but I carried a 4 inch model 10 S&W loaded with tracers in my left shirt pocket,over my heart. The butt was all that stuck out,and I had a lanyard cord tied to that that went around my neck. I even had cause to use it once to suppress fire as I hauled butt away from a ambush site with what I thought was a malfunctioning M-16. I discovered later that the only thing wrong with the M-16 was that I must have tried to load a mag in it backwards or upside down. All I knew at that time was that the click I heard when I dropped the hammer on a empty chamber was the loudest noise I had ever heard in my life,and I needed to get the hell out of Dodge right NOW. I was the only one left on the ambush site where we ambushed a couple of companies of NVA,and I had been providing covering fire so everybody else could retreat once the NVA started to get their stuff together and return fire. NOT the right time to set down and field strip your weapon,or even look to see if the magazine you jammed up there at about 3,000 mph was actually still in the rifle. Nope,it was clearly time to panic.

[sneakypete]

The reason most don't hit with a handgun is under stress most don't look at their handgun sights.

HorseHillary! If you are in a fire fight and the situation is desperate enough you are using a handgun,you had damn sure better be able to point-shoot it. People who screw around with sight alignment end up getting killed. Using your sights is ok if you are behind a barricade or in a similar situation,but face to face with a armed bad guy out in the open,you need to point shoot.

[sneakypete]

The advantages of .45acp over .44 spl are two as I see it. First practice ammunition is a whole lot more common and as a result less expensive.

Maybe,but anybody who is serious about shooting needs to reload,and not all autoloaders feed wadcutters real well. This isn't a problem with a revolver,and a wadcutter is a MUCH more effective bullet than the RN acp load. Yeah,I know about hollowpoints,but my theory is start with a big enough bullet,and then put it where you want it.

[river rat]

Your comments are correct, in my opinion.

If you're going to a fist fight or knife fight -- the pistol is an ideal weapon..
(Remember rule 1- NEVER give the enemy an even break.. Do NOT "fight fair", fight to win)

If you're anticipating a real fire fight with armed men, a Cobra Chopper or Puff the Magic Dragon was the preferred weapon.......

If YOU have to carry everything yourself --- leave the pistol behind and carry more food for your rifle and pack grenades... If you're the type to commit suicide - your knife or your last grenade works nicely....or simply stand up!

If you're walking with 'yards ----- give them the bulky/heavy shit and pack your side arm (if it makes you sleep better)--- along with your weapon....

For some unclear reason --- prisoners always seemed to be more intimidated by a pistol in the ear during questioning.
Other than that - they didn't seem worth the carry.

Note -- Our M60 was manned by a kid that couldn't have weighed more than 135/145lbs... and about 5'7''.
Yet - he somehow managed to carry his weapon, lots of onboard ammo, his knife, a few grenades and a side arm..
He was 20' tall in a fire fight ---- but we nearly lost him every wet crossing..... he sank like a stone!
He constantly bitched about his feet or legs hurting....I wonder why?

Semper Fi

[meadsjn]

A few Islamikazis in the kindergartens and night clubs and that may chnge over night.

The most likely response will be for the gun grabboids to try to ban more guns from Americans.

At some point folks are just going to quit working so hard to draw distinctions between our enemies foreign and domestic.

[Mat_Helm]

All you need is a good 1911A1 .45ACP such as a Springfield milspec. that is not very tight and can shoot 1000 rounds without ever having a burp or hickup. A good heavy 230gr bullet moving @900 fps with 6 quick follow up rounds ready to go if you panick and miss and the fool doesn't run away.

For rare individuals such as myself who had a Marine Corps gunny sgt. for a father and mentor and shot his heavy magnum when you were 5yrs old without ear protection from the front porch while sitting on his knee, you would prefer the .44 magnum and would be fond of the Ruger Super Balckhawk and Redhawk. You would prefer the Super Blackhawk for its accuracy and simple ellegance. You would load your own and have a favorite round for each occasion such as the Keith 250gr SWC (hard cast 50/50 wheel weight and lynotype mix)loaded with 9.7gr of Unique for fun plinking days or loaded with 22gr of 2400 for the big bang buck days. For accuracy would load the 210gr Sierra JSP or JHP with 26gr of WW296 with the CCI-300 large pistol primers. Very good accuracy out to 150 yards and even at 100 yards you can hold a 4" group. For the bahemath stopper you would load the depleted uranium secret load you share with nobody becuase it may hurt others who attempt to load and shoot a round handled only by rare individuals who know the secret hand shake and can therefore pass on the load data for.

Peace brother!

[8mmMauser]

Charter Arms undercover is maybe underpowered at a 38 but years of carrying aud use makes it an extension of my hand. I would always want a double tap anyway. Reliable, quality construction. Lots to love.

For defense I would always revert to those I was most familiar with, those which fall into position and function so naturally, like driving, it could operate without conscious thought and without surprises.

[spodefly]

"everytime your discharge your gun in self-defense you may have a possible lawsuit on your hands if your rounds miss ..."

Spodefly don't miss! ;)

[Travis McGee]

A few Islamikazis in the kindergartens and night clubs and that may chnge over night.

The most likely response will be for the gun grabboids to try to ban more guns from Americans.

Possibly, in some jurisdictions. But at some point gun owners, esp veterens, will simply not comply. It will start "LA Korean style" with people guarding their kids schools open carry, and it will spread, with police told to back off, and "the 2nd amendment and my DD214 are all the papers I need."

[Travis McGee]

Harpseal and I were just discussing revolvers, the pros and cons of getting a new .45acp revolver vice a .44sp revolver. Taurus makes them, and Charter is going to.

[Travis McGee]

How often do you consider the luck that it has taken to see you through until today? The bullets and frags that whizzed past you and missed by one inch?

[Travis McGee]

I love my C.A. .38 also!

[NMC EXP]

Why not a good Colt or S&W Model 1917 in .45 ACP? If they're tight and have a good bore they shoot real well.

Regards

J.R.