Iraqi Kurds warn Turkey

BBC ^ | February 23, 2003 | Jim Muir

[Indy Pendance]

The Kurds of northern Iraq have warned that there will be clashes if troops from neighbouring Turkey cross the border.

Ankara is demanding that Turkish forces should enter the north of the country to secure Turkey's interests if the US and Britain go ahead with an attack on Iraq.

Kurdish spokesmen have said that their guerrillas who control the north will oppose any Turkish intervention.

Regional tensions are rising in advance of expected military action by the US and its allies and the atmosphere between two of those allies - the Turks and the Iraqi Kurds - is becoming increasingly embittered.

Guerrilla warning

In the most blunt warning yet, senior officials of the two big Kurdish factions - the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) and its rival, the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) - have warned that if Turkish troops cross the border for any reason there will be trouble.

The KDP and PUK have run affairs in an enclave in the north of Iraq since 1991.

The KDP's peshmerga guerrillas control the border regions seen as a possible route for Turkish forces.

KDP spokesman Hoshyar Zebari said: "We will oppose any Turkish military intervention. This is our decision.

"Nobody should [think] we are bluffing on this issue. This is a very serious matter. Any intervention, under whatever pretext, will lead to clashes."

Mr Zebari said it would be bad for the image of the Americans and British that two of their allies should be "at each other's throats" before the main battle against the Baghdad government had even started.

He also warned that if the Turks intervened, other regional powers such as Iran would also feel free to step in.

Turkish wishes

As part of the price for their own troops to spring off from Turkey, the Americans are believed to have agreed in principle to the Turkish demand for forces to be involved.

The Turkish foreign minister has said the intervention would be to:

Head off a potential wave of refugees

Stop the Iraqi Kurds setting up an independent state

Prevent Kurdish forces from entering the nearby Iraqi oil cities of Kirkuk and Mosul

The Kurds insist they have no intention of doing any of these things and they say that Turkish intervention would be an unnecessary violation of Iraqi sovereignty.

The Turks are also said to be demanding that Kurdish guerrillas should be disarmed.

The Kurdish spokesmen said they had already agreed that their forces should be dissolved and merged with the Iraqi army and police forces, but not before a democratic federal government has been established in Baghdad.

The Kurds and Turks have been engaged in so far inconclusive talks over Ankara's demands and another meeting is scheduled for Tuesday.

[Irene Adler]

This Kurdish problem, regarding both Iraq and Turkey, is going to cause a lot of complicated headaches for us when we go to set up the newly constituted Iraq, I would think. I am sure the admin. is planning for the consequences of a liberated Iraq on the situation, but it's still pretty worrisome to me.

[guitfiddlist]

Somebody please remind me why we need Turkey after we get into Iraq. After Bush I instigated an uprising of the Kurds - resulting in the shameful slaughter of the Kurds after Gulf War I, while we stood by from 30,000 feet allowing Iraqi choppers to slaughter Kurdish men, women and children running for their lives - and after allowing the Turks to oppress them from the North - I'd say we owe the Kurds quite a bit.

Screw Turkey and their extortion. I'm for a Kurdistan, free of both Iraq and Turkey.

[snooter55]

Your insight certainly makes one think .....
Snooter ;o)

[Beck_isright]

"Screw Turkey and their extortion. I'm for a Kurdistan, free of both Iraq and Turkey."

You support communism and radical Islam? You support Iran? Because if you support a "free Kurdistan" that's who you are endorsing. A brief history primer for you:
During the Cold War, in the 1960's and 1970's the USSR used guerilla movements in Armenia and your precious Kurdistan in an attempt to destabilize Turkey. When the Shah fled Iran, the USSR and Chicoms continued supplying the Kurds this time with the help of the Mullahs in Iran. We only came to their support when we needed to kick out Sadamn from Kuwait and of course screwed them in the end. They are not to be trusted. The Turkish people and their government are generally passive, but in this case they are sick and tired of the incursions into their nation and attacks on nurseries, the elderly, etc. initiated by Iranian backed Kurdish terrorists. For 50 plus years, the Turks were the front line against an invasion by the USSR into Western Europe and did more to prevent World War III than any of those wusses (Britain excluded) in Western Europe. If that's what you support, that's your business, but I would suggest going there like I did with Uncle Sam before spouting off on something you have no clue of.

[Cultural Jihad]

Agreed. While not every faction or ethnic group should be handed their own splintered state, a Kurdish state carved from both the colonial-drawn borders of Iraq and Turkey makes sense.

[Austin Willard Wright]

You can't "plan" for the consequences of trying to occupy and "administer" that medieveal Bosnia writ large ethnic/religious tinderbox called Iraq. It is insanity to even try, but try we will.

[Beck_isright]

I would suggest reading post#5 and re-reading your Cold War history. The "Cold War" is not over. It is just in the freezer but the Russians and Chicoms are still fighting to undermine us worldwide. Beware stabbing more true allies in the back, or you might get the isolationist utopia so many think we shold have here like the 20's and 30's of the last century.

[guitfiddlist]

If that's what you support, that's your business, but I would suggest going there like I did with Uncle Sam before spouting off on something you have no clue of.

Ok Mr. Expert. I would submit that if Iraq can be a democracy by our plan - so can Kurdistan. If Bush I thought it was appropriate to instigate Kurdish insurrection - then I think it behooves us to honor our promises of support to them. Perhaps you don't. Perhaps you were one of those that invited their insurrection - maybe not. Your comments seem to indicate you know what we did to them. But you don't care. I don't have much respect for your despicable and usury attitude.

[Austin Willard Wright]

Makes sense?! You better tell that to the state department. They will hold together that artificial state of Iraq at all costs, no matter how much it costs the Americna taxpayer. The state department hates secession. In their view, if Iraq Kurdistan goes, so will Turkish Kurdistan, and Shi'te Kurdistan. Not that the Kurds and Shi'tes won't try. Who can blame them? American troops will be caught in the middle.

[Austin Willard Wright]

That's Shi'te Iraq.

[a_Turk]

The publicized Turkish "hope" is that the Turkish military will not have to fire. But you can be sure that the terrorists based there will attack us, we're counting on that. Until then we're there for peace keeping and humanitarian support.

The light green area in the map below is accepted by the parliament of Kurdistan to be the segment of the Republic of Turkey that will be part of their country, which they will try to create. This parliament comprises representatives from the two ruling Kurdish bodies in northern Irak.


You can be sure that this ridiculous dream will never come to fruition, no matter what flavor the administration in DC.


A convoy of Turkish military trucks carrying tanks drives near the southeast Turkish town of Cizre, heading to a location near Turkey's southern frontier with Iraq February 23, 2003. Turkish Foreign Minister Yasar Yakis said on Sunday a deal to allow U.S. troops to use the country as a base for a possible attack on Iraq was close but a final agreement was needed on a range of military and political issues.


An aerial view of Iskenderun port with the U.S. military vehicles on the ground in southern Turkey, Saturday Feb. 22, 2003, where a large U.S. vessel unloaded military Humvees, heavy work machinery and other military vehicles. The Turkish parliament earlier this month agreed to allow the United States to renovate bases and ports, including Iskenderun, for use during a possible military offensive against Iraq.


A Turkish soldier signals to cars as he stands guard behind sand bags at a check-point near Habur border crossing in Turkey's southern frontier with Iraq February 22, 2003.

Gec means pass.

[phothus]

There will NOT be a free Kurdistan. There may be a state of Kurdistan that is a part of a Iraqi federated republic, but that's about it. While we support them having voting rights and freedoms we won't support them having their own state. That's probably the biggest part of getting Turkey to support us. The only part of Iraq that may be split off is some of the western regions may become part of a Jordanian 'protectorate'.

[eleni121]

You support communism and radical Islam? You support Iran? Because if you support a "free Kurdistan" that's who you are endorsing.

Blatant lies!

The Turkish people and their government are generally passive

Who do you think you are fooling - What are you smoking? Turks have been the leading butchers of ethnic Christians for hundreds of years. Kurds and Armenians have been in the region for thousands of years before the Turk Muslims ever showed up!

Get you facts straight before you post rubbish!

[eleni121]

While not every faction or ethnic group should be handed their own splintered state, a Kurdish state carved from both the colonial-drawn borders of Iraq and Turkey makes sense.

Absolutely right. This is long overdue and would go along way in defining a new and enlightened US foreign policy.

Turks are not to be trusted - they will stab us in the back in a heartbeat as they have done before in the Gulf War.

[Beck_isright]

"I would submit that if Iraq can be a democracy by our plan - so can Kurdistan."

So what your are suggesting is that the use of military force to remove 1/3 of Turkey's existing territory to create this "greater Kurdistan" that they demand is acceptable? That's like arguing that we should give parts of Texas back to Mexico because there are more Mexicans than Americans in parts of the state. You don't have a clue what you are talking about. Kurdistan has never existed as a nation or entity in over 3000 years of civilized history. It is a tribe, a loosely knit group of people ruled by warlords and chieftans who would prove to be as dangerous as the Taliban or the Saudis.

"If Bush I thought it was appropriate to instigate Kurdish insurrection - then I think it behooves us to honor our promises of support to them."

We supported insurrection against Iraq, we never promised them a nation. And we are not very honorable as under the advice of the idiots in the State Department, we failed to protect them in 91-92. They don't trust us and believe me we should not trust them; especially those getting direct military assitance from Iran.

" Perhaps you were one of those that invited their insurrection - maybe not."

Uh, not. I was just another middle grade officer trying to do my job. Most of us wanted to finish it back then knowing damn well this day would come.

"Your comments seem to indicate you know what we did to them. But you don't care."

I know what we did and I do care. But creating a nation from other nation's sovereign terrirtory is not the solution. A united Iraq under a democratically elected government where all citizens are protected equally is the only logical solution. There is a lot of doubt about democracy in Islamic countries. The alternatives have not worked for the last 50 years EXCEPT in Turkey. Time to free the people and economies of this region and let them grow to the stature they should have in world affairs.

My attitude is because a lot of members of FR have gone on a witchunt of the Turkish people and government with total ignorance of history and how the nation evolved in the last 80 years. It's appalling. I know the NEA has dumbed down America, but I'll be wiling to bet that less than 1% knows what the term "Kemalist" means and why it's critical to the affairs of this region today. I also and sick and tired of democracies being slammed just because they are bargaining for the best deal for their people just like we would and do. If we want long term allies like Turkey, it has to be a 2 way street, and they accept that as we do. The Kurds were once the tools of the old Soviet Union. They are still killing women, old men and children on a weekly basis in Turkey, like they have for decades. Where is the media coverage on this? Where is the moral indignation from the FReeper community? Why does everyone think the GD NY Times, Washington Post and FNC are the only news sources in the world? Everyone flames those of us trying to present all sides of the story. Fine. But do your own research and you will find hundreds of stories about what and how this situation has evolved and terrorist activities by the Kurds. You might be suprised.

[a_Turk]

Don't send Turks, warning to US

You know, another bone of contention we'd been haggling about:

The US distribution of weapons to the Kurds, as well as the collection of the same after the war, will be done in partnership with the Turkish military.

This detail has also been agreed to..

[guitfiddlist]

You support communism and radical Islam? You support Iran?...

...So what your are suggesting is that the use of military force to remove 1/3 of Turkey's existing territory to create this "greater Kurdistan" that they demand is acceptable? That's like arguing that we should give parts of Texas back to Mexico because there are more Mexicans than Americans in parts of the state...

...The Kurds were once the tools of the old Soviet Union. They are still killing women, old men and children on a weekly basis in Turkey, like they have for decades...

Well, now that you mention it...my idea of a Kurdistan is indeed a Soviet-style communist and yet Iranian-style radical Islamic republic, that kills old men, women and children on a weekly basis, and which consficates not 1/3 of Turkey - but maybe closer to 78%, and at least 40% of Texas to boot, as long as we're pulling percentages out of a hat - or other places. And, oh yeah, they all will be required to be wife-beaters too.

So you worked for the US government. That, my friend, is a very scary thought.

[Beck_isright]

No, I served the US Government. I was not an employee so to speak. We took an oath and put our lives on the line in 91. What did you do? Suck down breskis and popcorn and watch CNN?

[Beck_isright]

My friend, it's amazing. I would estimate 80-90% of FReepers have their heads up their rears and think that all Muslims are anti-American or that they could not handle democracy. It just goes to show how stupid the populus is here. I apologize again for the ignorance and while I was in the service want to thank your nation for the hospitality they showed me and my friends. Maybe the U.S. should re-institute the draft so more of these anal-retentive types could meet the people of the world who appreciate our nation's principles and eductate these dolts as why we must give democracy a chance and not presume the Cold War is over. Thank you again for putting me on your ping list.