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Another Dual Citizenship Question.
3.9.03 | mlmr

Posted on 03/09/2003 4:53:39 PM PST by mlmr

An acquaintance has emigrated to England and recently informed me that he became a British citizen. When I asked whether he had renounced US citizenship, he said no, he is now a dual citizen. He said that England recognizes dual, even though the US doesn't he travels on his US passport and jumps between the two countries frequently.

What would the US state department do if they knew he had taken up British citizenship? Would he lose his US passport? Can he have two passports now. One British and one US?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: citizenship

1 posted on 03/09/2003 4:53:39 PM PST by mlmr
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To: mlmr
You posted twice.
2 posted on 03/09/2003 4:55:38 PM PST by The Coopster (I've got you're global warming........)
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To: The Coopster
I know. I tried to apologize but the thread was pulled.
3 posted on 03/09/2003 4:56:32 PM PST by mlmr
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To: mlmr
"No man can serve two masters..."-Jesus Of Nazareth
4 posted on 03/09/2003 4:58:31 PM PST by AEMILIUS PAULUS (Further, the statement assumed)
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To: mlmr
What would the US state department do if they knew he had taken up British citizenship? Would he lose his US passport? Can he have two passports now. One British and one US?

The State Dept. wont do anything, and yes he can have 2 Passports.

5 posted on 03/09/2003 4:59:16 PM PST by eabinga
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: mlmr
After I posted, I discovered the same thing. Sorry - I wasn't trying to be a thread nanny.

As far as your friend is concerned: If he did this out of spite for his country, I say report him. If he doesn't want to claim this wonderful country as his own, screw him. I can't think of any good reason for renouncing your citizenship, but I am the first to admit that I don't know the whole story.
7 posted on 03/09/2003 4:59:58 PM PST by The Coopster (I've got you're global warming........)
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To: eabinga
Thank you. It makes me question though, what is the meaning of citizenship?
8 posted on 03/09/2003 5:00:43 PM PST by mlmr
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To: Badabing Badaboom
So, pledging to another country does not negate your own citizenship.
9 posted on 03/09/2003 5:02:18 PM PST by mlmr
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To: mlmr
Thank you. It makes me question though, what is the meaning of citizenship?

It means the state claims you to be one of theirs.. :)

10 posted on 03/09/2003 5:03:00 PM PST by eabinga
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To: eabinga
Not that you claim to be one of theirs....???
11 posted on 03/09/2003 5:04:16 PM PST by mlmr
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To: mlmr
Dual Citizenship
12 posted on 03/09/2003 5:04:39 PM PST by sourcery (The Oracle on Mount Doom)
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To: mlmr
I don't understand dual-citizenship. What is the purpose of it, and what are the advantages?
13 posted on 03/09/2003 5:04:43 PM PST by gitmo (You know, I feel more now, like I did, than when I first got here.)
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To: mlmr
So, pledging to another country does not negate your own citizenship.

Depends on the countries involved.

Basically, most people don't chose their citizenship.

For example:
Anybody Born in the USA is an American Citizen.
Anybody who has a German mother is a German Citizen.

So what about a child born in the USA with German parents? They have dual citizenship, both countries claim them to be citizens of the respective countries.

14 posted on 03/09/2003 5:07:20 PM PST by eabinga
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: gitmo
So, pledging to another country does not negate your own citizenship.

It gives you greater choices on where you can live and also makes travel to some countries easier.

On the other hand, you also have responsibilities towards both countries. (e.g. military service, taxes, etc)

16 posted on 03/09/2003 5:10:40 PM PST by eabinga
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To: gitmo
oops, i just misquoted you... sorry
17 posted on 03/09/2003 5:12:03 PM PST by eabinga
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To: gitmo
On 16 April 1990, though, the State Department adopted a new set of guidelines for handling dual citizenship cases which are much more streamlined and liberal than before.

The State Department now says that it will assume that a US citizen intends to retain (not give up) his US citizenship if he:


is naturalized in a foreign country;

takes a routine oath of allegiance to a foreign country; or

accepts foreign government employment that is of a "non-policy-level" nature.
Apparently, a "routine oath of allegiance" to another country is no longer taken as firm evidence of intent to give up US citizenship, even if said oath includes a renunciation of US citizenship. This represents a dramatic reversal of previous US policy; it used to be that any such statement was taken rigidly at face value (as in the Supreme Court's 1980 Terrazas decision).

This presumption that someone intends to keep US citizenship does not apply to a person who:


takes a "policy-level" position in a foreign country;

is convicted of treason against the US; or

engages in "conduct which is so inconsistent with retention of U.S. citizenship that it compels a conclusion that [he] intended to relinquish U.S. citizenship."
The State Department says that cases of these kinds will be examined carefully to determine the person's intent. They also say that cases falling under the last criterion mentioned above (conduct wholly inconsistent with intent to keep US citizenship) are presumed to be "very rare."



18 posted on 03/09/2003 5:15:02 PM PST by mlmr
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To: eabinga
oh, how cosmopolitan these people are : they simply chose to be whatever is most convenient at the moment

the trouble with sitting on the fence is splinters and nobody can really trust you

19 posted on 03/09/2003 5:41:50 PM PST by hoosierham
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To: mlmr
Lots of people have dual citizenship; some have more. A good friend of mine in high school held Italian (father's nationality), Swedish (mother's nationality), Kenyan (where she was born), and U.S. (where she had lived since early elementary school, and her parents had had the good sense to get her citizenship here).
20 posted on 03/09/2003 5:53:24 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: hoosierham
In 1982, my wife had to "renounce" the Moroccan government in order to become a US citizen. She was asked, "did that make you sad?" She said "No, I did it with great pleasure."
21 posted on 03/09/2003 5:54:21 PM PST by cookcounty
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To: eabinga
My daughter was born in Germany while I was stationed at Ramstien. We were told when she was 18 she had to declare her citizenship since she held dual citizenship.
22 posted on 03/09/2003 5:56:06 PM PST by noutopia
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To: mlmr
1. When the mouse fires twice for one click it is worn out and needs replacement.

2. If the state department ever finds out about your friend his/her U.S. citizenship will be revoked.

23 posted on 03/09/2003 5:57:32 PM PST by LibKill (VIOLENCE! The supreme authority from which all other authority is derived.)
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To: LibKill
"All Authority is given unto me in "Heaven and in Earth...." Jesus Christ.
24 posted on 03/09/2003 6:08:43 PM PST by webber (EVERY knee shall bow, and EVERY tongue confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD - TO THE GLORY OF GOD!!)
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To: mlmr
The purpose of U.S. policy to allow dual citizenship is to make it hard for a person to renounce U.S. citizenship. The United States is the only nation, other the Eritria (who got the idea from the U.S.) that claims to be able to tax a citizen no matter where their income is earned. A U.S. passport is the most expensive one in the world. The U.S. government wanted to make sure that they could tax people anywhere in the world. If people could simply claim they were not U.S. citizens by having citizenship in another country, the U.S. government would not have as much control as they desired. This confiscatory tax policy of the U.S. is driving a good deal of capital out of the country.
25 posted on 03/09/2003 6:14:44 PM PST by marktwain
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
"No man can serve two masters..."

We don't serve our government in America, it serves us.

Er, uh . . . that's how it's supposed to work, anyhow.

26 posted on 03/09/2003 6:16:14 PM PST by Abcdefg
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To: mlmr
I was on a tour bus in San Francisco recently and the driver was Irish. He said that you could get an Irish passport if you could show that you have an Irish ancestor. He said it was sometimes easier traveling on an Irish passport. I don't know the validity of this.
27 posted on 03/09/2003 6:18:17 PM PST by AUsome Joy
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To: LibKill
1 Not ab bad mouse, a bad finger.

2 Not according to the other posts and links on this site. The State Department couldn't care less.
28 posted on 03/09/2003 6:19:00 PM PST by mlmr
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To: eabinga
"Anybody Born in the USA is an American Citizen."

From the 14th Amendment:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

Looks like there is already a dual citizenship issue right here in the good ole US of A.

29 posted on 03/09/2003 6:20:47 PM PST by Abcdefg
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To: mlmr
How to obtain an Irish Passport. This site tells advantages of dual passports.

http://www.ancestry.com/library/view/columns/eastman/5398.asp?rc=locale%7E&us=0
30 posted on 03/09/2003 6:22:55 PM PST by AUsome Joy
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To: gitmo
In my wife's situation, the Thai government does not allow foreigners to own real property (land). Until a couple of years back, a Thai woman married to a foreigner could not own land either. Since the change in the Thai law, my wife has re-registered for the Thai census. You do do nothing but show your birth certificate and last residence and current residence when in Thailand. Thus, she is able to own the land on which her house is built. There was no question of renouncing her American citizenship -- which she would never have done.
31 posted on 03/09/2003 7:32:54 PM PST by JimSEA
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To: noutopia
That is the way it was when I was stationed in Rome. You had dual citizenship till you were 18, then you had to choose.

OB
32 posted on 03/09/2003 7:41:40 PM PST by OBone (Support our boys in uniform)
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