Point One: That the French press, is as reflective of an indicator of the ideology of the French population as the USA press is an indicator of the ideology of the people of the USA.
Point two: Polls in France are as indicative of French politics as the polls of the USA are as indicative of our politics.
If you do not accept the above points, then there is no need to read further. But if you feel they are valid, then, I hope you will continue.
Can you back that up in any way?
Yes, I will give some specifics and with some leg work, you can confirm my stats.
From what I've heard the French media is gushing over him,
Much as the liberal media has gushed over Bill Clinton?
comparing him to Charles DeGaulle, Charlemagne,
Certainly two very strong Frenchmen in history. But hardly what you would consider to be Socialists or liberals by today's standards.
and Nelson Mandela.
Does he really belong in the same comparison as de Gaulle?
And the polls show his popularity at about 90%.
Bush I's numbers were in the same stratosphere after the Gulf War. So much for polls.
Remember he is the conservative leader in France,
Actually he is the middle position, not the right.
and the socialists are even more anti-American, if that's possible.
see stats below.
So if you have any facts to support your wishful argument,
your accusatory tone will be ignored. I speak not in defense of France, but more from a logical perspective. One which allows for differences of opinions. I also fully acknowledge that France is far more leftist, then we are in the states.
let's hear them.
Well since you asked:
In April of 2002 Fance held round one of their elections. Their methodolgy differs from ours in that all candidates run and then only the top two have a run-off. The results were:
Chirac (middle) - 20% (I am rounding off)
Le Pen (right)- 17%
Jospin (left)- 16%
Bayrou (?)- 7%
Laguiller(communist) -6%
Chevenement(?) - 5%
Namere (green)- 5%
Other Leftists - 7%
So in may they had round two and Chirac garnered 80% of the vote. Why?
Because the Communist/socialist press of France did a Blitzkrieg against le Pen.
Suggestion: do a google search on Le Pen and count how many times "facist" is mentioned with him.
If you really believe that Chirac represents the French 100% then you also must believe that that the NY Times and Bill Clinton represented the American people in 1998.
So Le Pen finished a very close second to Chirac, the the leftists mobilized behind Chirac after the press Blitz and Chirac kicked ass. I see Le Pen's strong performance (and when combined with other indicators) that Europe in general is shifting to the right, not the left. This shift is slow, but it is also real ( Netherlands being another example).
Le Pen scared the hell out of the French Liberal Press (much more liberal then ours) and thay did everything they could to defeat him ( as ours would if, it was reversed)
Chirac is between a hard place (The USA Position) and a Rock (Iraq/the leftists). He owes his power to the leftists and thus is pandering to them.
Hugin, this fight, like all fights, is not between the French people and the American people, it is between our governments, which are susceptable to the politics of the moment.
I would no more choose to hate a Frenchman, for the actions of Chirac, then I would expect a Frenchmen to hate me for the actions of Bill Clinton.
I disagree. Since the French in general are much more leftist than Americans, they French public opinion is much more in line with their media.
Point two: Polls in France are as indicative of French politics as the polls of the USA are as indicative of our politics.
I have never doubted that polls are generally correct. IMHO those who said that in the Clinton years were merely engaging in wishful thinking. None the less, I will still take up your specifics.
Much as the liberal media has gushed over Bill Clinton?
That's irrelevant. As you acknowledge, the French public is much more to the left of Americans, and therefore you cannot compare the two situations. In America there is a big divide between the liberals in the coastal media centers and the folks in "flyover country". There is no evidence of such a divide in France.
Bush I's numbers were in the same stratosphere after the Gulf War. So much for polls.
Yes, because the American people supported his conduct of the war at that time. Just as the French people support Chirac's anti-Americanism now. The fact that other issues may be more important later hardly disproves the French anti-Americanism.
Actually he is the middle position, not the right.
For decades the Gaulist party was the only major conservative party in France, and they are still the largest. Since the rise of Le Pen they now share the right with the nationalists. The Gaulists are the equivelent of the moderate wing of the Republican party in as much as any comparison is valid between the two countries.
Now if you look at your stats, lets say that Chirac and everybody to the left share his anti-Americanism. That leaves the 20% that voted for Le Pen. Is there any indication that they are more pro-American than the rest? You cannot assume that just because someone is a "rightist" in France that they are pro-American. The right in France has it's roots in statism going back to the monarchies. In America their has never been such a tradition since the American Revolution. Our conservative tradtion actually embraces and defends the classic liberalism of our founding fathers. That is a distinction most people overlook, but it's escencial to understand when comparing the "left" and "right" in Europe and America.
Hugin, this fight, like all fights, is not between the French people and the American people, it is between our governments, which are susceptable to the politics of the moment. I would no more choose to hate a Frenchman, for the actions of Chirac, then I would expect a Frenchmen to hate me for the actions of Bill Clinton.
Again, the analogy to Clinton is flawed. Clinton never received 80% of the American vote as Chirac did, and never had the approval ratings that Chirac does. As for choosing "hate a Frenchman", who said any such thing? I do hold the French as a country in contempt for their long history of anti-Americanism going back at least 40 years. Ditto for those who back that policy, which all evidence shows is the majority. I also find much of French culture smug, condescending and annoying. But I do not hate every French person. There may even be 10-20% who are OK.