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Poland Lashes Out at France; "What Gaul!"
The Warsaw Voice ^

Posted on 03/18/2003 4:06:33 AM PST by dmcg_98

What Gaul! 27 February 2003

The French President's words in Brussels have caused the most serious friction for years in Paris-Warsaw relations and the largest eruption of anti-French comments in Poland.

At a press conference following the European Union's extraordinary summit devoted to the Iraq crisis Feb. 17, Jacques Chirac criticized the pro-American policy pursued by Central European EU candidate countries. "They lost a good opportunity to be quiet... they acted somewhat recklessly, did not demonstrate good manners... their behavior was infantile," said Chirac, adding that this might obstruct the ratification of the Accession Treaty, as "European public opinion" in the countries of the Fifteen looks askance at this kind of policy.

Delegations from the countries attacked by Chirac were not present at the summit in Brussels, as France and Germany did not agree to invite EU candidate states, despite proposals put forward by, among others, Great Britain and Spain. The criticism voiced by Chirac was caused first of all by the "Letter of Eight," signed Jan. 29 by prime ministers of the following five EU countries: Denmark, Spain, Portugal, Great Britain and Italy, and of three EU candidate countries: Poland, Slovakia and Hungary; one day later, the letter was also signed by retiring Czech President Vaclav Havel. The letter, a declaration of solidarity with Washington's policy, triggered many sharply critical comments both in France and Germany. "When you are in the family, you have more rights," said Chirac, when the fact was brought to his attention that the heads of governments of five EU countries also signed the letter. On the following day in Warsaw, French Defense Minister Michelle Alliot-Marie used the same rhetoric, comparing the candidate countries to a "daughter-in-law, only about to enter the family."

"In Europe, there are no better ones and worse ones; there are no children, or states too immature for partnership," said Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs W³odzimierz Cimoszewicz in Brussels Feb. 18, stressing that the idea of certain countries having more of a say is unacceptable.

Cimoszewicz's response was one of the mildest of those provoked in Poland. A majority of politicians and commentators reserved much sharper criticism for Chirac. The French president's earlier controversial statements were cited, including from Moscow last year, when Chirac, without prior consultation with any of the states concerned, reassured President Vladimir Putin that in the future the newly admitted EU member countries-or Poland and Lithuania-would not introduce visas for Russian citizens living in Kaliningrad district. It was also remembered that France was partly responsible for the Polish state finding itself in the Soviet camp for half a century in the wake of World War II. Charles de Gaulle was the first among the leaders of Western superpowers to officially recognize Boles³aw Bierut's Moscow-installed government, thus substantially helping Joseph Stalin in his political objective vis-á-vis Poland.

"France is not a pacifist country... it loves war-provided it is the country that is heading it," said Marek Siwiec, the head of presidential National Security Office (BBN), commenting on Paris's stance on the Iraq crisis.

Voicing their feelings concerning Chirac's threats over Poland's accession to the EU, both Polish Chief Negotiator Jan Truszczyñski and Minister for European Integration Danuta Hübner reacted calmly, expressing the hope that these words were effected by emotion. Hübner also pointed out that the content of the "Letter of Eight" did not conflict with the decisions made earlier in Brussels in discussions over EU foreign policy.

Politicians from other countries aspiring to the EU also voiced their criticism of Chirac. Slovak Prime Minister Mikulas Dzurinda, a signatory of the "Letter of Eight," said that his country was fully entitled to participate in formulating a common European policy. Deputy Foreign Minister of Bulgaria Lubomir Ivanov said that Chirac's words were yet another form of pressure exerted on Central European countries by Paris. Romania's President Ion Iliescu described Chirac's words as "completely out of line."

Some Western European politicians described Chirac's behavior in an unambiguously critical manner. British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who had earlier strove in vain to invite representatives of EU candidate countries to the Brussels summit, said that endeavoring to deprive any state of its voice is a serious political mistake. European Parliament President Pat Cox shared Blair's opinion. Chirac's words were received most bluntly by Chris Patten, EU commissioner for external contacts, who said that "the European Union is no Warsaw Pact."


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bio; bush; chemical; eu; france; iraq; poland; protests; un; usa; war
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1 posted on 03/18/2003 4:06:33 AM PST by dmcg_98
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To: dmcg_98
:) Gaul indeed. Take that up your clymer, Chiraq!
2 posted on 03/18/2003 4:11:22 AM PST by goldstategop
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To: dmcg_98
I am really starting to think the Poles are our type of people. They have been right there with us all the way.
3 posted on 03/18/2003 4:20:17 AM PST by judicial meanz (If you sacrfice your freedom and liberty for a feeling of security, you dont deserve to be free)
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To: dmcg_98
Considering that the Frogs have screwed the Poles before (again, and again, and again, if my memory of European history serves), methinks it's time for payback.
4 posted on 03/18/2003 4:22:25 AM PST by steveegg (The French have removed 1 leg from the UN; it is now LN (League of Nations).)
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To: dmcg_98
The EU, NATO, the UN, are indeed all French-dominated bodies increasingly contrary to the interests of not only the United States. Polish exiles helped win WWII with their code-breaking work, they heroically re-captured Monte Casino, and now the Poles are going to help us in this war because they know that our interests coincide on a civilizational scale, IMHO.

Solidarnoc!
5 posted on 03/18/2003 4:26:15 AM PST by Unknowing (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.)
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To: dmcg_98
"In Europe, there are no better ones and worse ones; there are no children, or states too immature for partnership,"

This is what I have been saying all along, Chiaq has been patronizing thugs and has treated the US as a child. You do not treat any nation as if it were a child, even Iraq itself. You first of all show due respect. The French are positively inhumane and into sub race and subpeople mode.

6 posted on 03/18/2003 4:26:36 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: dmcg_98
Chirac in character...


7 posted on 03/18/2003 4:28:00 AM PST by hotpotato
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To: hotpotato
That would imply that Chiraq is innocent, like a baby.

Thinking people of the world know this is false. He has been in bed with Hussein since the 70's.

8 posted on 03/18/2003 4:32:16 AM PST by antienvironmentalist
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To: dmcg_98
""France is not a pacifist country... it loves war-provided it is the country that is heading it," said Marek Siwiec, the head of presidential National Security Office (BBN), commenting on Paris's stance on the Iraq crisis."

Great anallysis.
It loves war provided it doesn't have to do the fighting and can benefit from it anyway.

9 posted on 03/18/2003 4:32:38 AM PST by Spirited
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To: antienvironmentalist
It implies that Chiraq and not the others (as he accuses) is behaving like a child... with a case of foot-in-mouth.
10 posted on 03/18/2003 4:37:15 AM PST by hotpotato
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To: dmcg_98
Villepin hiding under a burqa


11 posted on 03/18/2003 4:44:08 AM PST by hotpotato
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To: Spirited
It loves war provided it doesn't have to do the fighting and can benefit from it anyway.

Exactly. That's just what they did in both world wars. I'm glad the world is recognizing this fact.

12 posted on 03/18/2003 4:49:26 AM PST by Smile-n-Win
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To: dmcg_98
"Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres."--Julius Caesar

One third to Britain, one third to Spain, and one third to Poland. Sounds like a great idea to me!
13 posted on 03/18/2003 4:53:52 AM PST by Fresh Wind (Never forget: CLINTON PARDONED TERRORISTS)
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To: Unknowing
Solidarnosc

Solidarnosc Indeed! Polish courage in Gdansk is what pushed the teetering edifice of Soviet Empire into collapse.

14 posted on 03/18/2003 4:54:09 AM PST by chilepepper (Gnocchi Seuton!)
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To: steveegg
Yep, I think the Poles have been holding on to that knife which has been repeatedly placed in their back by the french, waiting for just the right time to return the favor.
15 posted on 03/18/2003 5:06:18 AM PST by Enemy Of The State (Beware the lollipop of mediocrity... lick it once and you suck forever)
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To: A. Pole
Bump for Poland!
16 posted on 03/18/2003 5:12:37 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: dmcg_98
"They lost a good opportunity to be quiet... they acted somewhat recklessly, did not demonstrate good manners... their behavior was infantile," said Chirac

Coward and idiot.

17 posted on 03/18/2003 5:14:48 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: chilepepper
That's right, that's right! Thanks for the spelling hint.
18 posted on 03/18/2003 5:21:54 AM PST by Unknowing (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.)
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To: Aquinasfan
The Polish must be about the finest people in the world and to think,we used to tell jokes about them.
19 posted on 03/18/2003 5:22:33 AM PST by oyez (Is this a great country...... or what??)
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To: judicial meanz
I am really starting to think the Poles are our type of people. They have been right there with us all the way.

At least Poland put up a real fight when the Nazis invaded their country.

20 posted on 03/18/2003 5:26:50 AM PST by Lockbox
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To: Spirited
It loves war provided it doesn't have to do the fighting and can benefit from it anyway.

Like Vietnam.

21 posted on 03/18/2003 5:28:07 AM PST by Lockbox
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To: dmcg_98
Your with us or against us.

Poland - 200 France - zip
22 posted on 03/18/2003 5:37:21 AM PST by Magoo
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To: Lockbox
Like Vietnam.

Oh, are you ever right!

Kennedy walked into that French pass-off with eyes wide shut.

23 posted on 03/18/2003 5:38:17 AM PST by Ole Okie
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To: oyez
That does it, where do I find Polish wine?
24 posted on 03/18/2003 5:41:46 AM PST by Bringbackthedraft
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To: Bringbackthedraft
I don't know wine but Polish beer (pilsners in particular) are great....
25 posted on 03/18/2003 6:08:34 AM PST by singletrack (..............................................................................)
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To: Bringbackthedraft
Polish wine

Its called beer.

26 posted on 03/18/2003 6:08:47 AM PST by oyez (Is this a great country...... or what??)
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To: goldstategop
If the future of Europe is a French-German-Russian axis, then it is of the highest importance that we stand by Poland as they have stood by us. Not only is it important for us geopolitically, but it's important for them to have a strong friend while they are stuck in that vise grip.

Let's not forget their support now, nor the huge role the Poles had in the fall of the iron curtain.
27 posted on 03/18/2003 6:15:59 AM PST by Media Insurgent
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: dmcg_98
The U.S. should work towards setting up a free trade relationship with the countries of Europe who have supported us, providing them with as many economic benefits as possible, in an attempt to woo them away from the European Common Market.

By doing so, we will adequately repay the French and German vermin for their perfidity.
29 posted on 03/18/2003 6:39:49 AM PST by ZULU (You)
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To: Karl B
...leaders of the eastern countries failed to see the meaning of Europe.

And what, pray tell, is the meaning of Europe? Europe has produced some of the worst tyrants and most awful wars mankind has ever seen.

If France and Germany find themselves weak in comparison to the USA, it's because they didn't build military power - they used the USA's military for security and spent their money on social programs.

And now they find themselves in the position of not being able to continue such social programs. The response has been massive Muslim immigration which has caused attacks on Jews in France.

30 posted on 03/18/2003 6:40:38 AM PST by freedomcrusader
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To: judicial meanz
If by "all the way" you're including Casmir Pulaski's help in the Revolutionary War, you are right ;)
31 posted on 03/18/2003 6:50:43 AM PST by Hegewisch Dupa (I get all the leftover green beer)
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To: oyez
Yes, the Poles are a great people! I've been to Poland twice (in the early 90's)and found the folks there extremely hospitable, friendly, and absolute geniuses in the preparation of cabbage.

The Polski Fiat carrying a family of six is a sight to behold, as well.
32 posted on 03/18/2003 6:53:21 AM PST by sixgunjer
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To: antienvironmentalist
No wonder Chirac is squealing....
33 posted on 03/18/2003 7:08:50 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: dmcg_98
It is obvious that the sane countries realize the dangers of the French. The French have declared war on sanity and what is right. They have armed one of the most vile killer/thugs in the history of man.

Each of us as American citizens can start our own personal war with the French without any governmental help, any grants or acts by congress!

Lets help this deranged and mentally ill country of frogs commit Financial $ocial $uicide.

Just $crew the Frogs with buycotts for the rest of this decade. Here is a simple list of products not to buy:

A list of French companies and their products to avoid for the rest of this decade. Please keep this list and send it to your relatives, friends and fellow conservatives via e and snail mail!

*New additions to the list thanks to Freepers. If you have an addition, Freepmail me with the URL showing French ownership.

Air France
Air Liquide
Airbus
Alcatel - Based in Paris France
Allegra (Allergy Medication) - Produced by Aventis Pharmaceuticals based in Strasbourg, France
Aqualung (Including: Spirotechnique, Technisub, US Divers, and SeaQuest)
AXA Advisors
Bank of the West - Owned by BNP Paribas
Beneteau (boats)
BF Goodrich - Owned by Michelin
BIC (Razors, Pens & Lighters) - Started in 1945 by Marcel Bich. Originally based just outside of Paris. Began trading on the Paris Stock Exchange in 1972. 40.5% Publicly traded. Bich family still owns 33.5%.
Biotherm (Cosmetics)
Black Bush
Bollinger (Champagne)
*Browning Firearms**
Car & Driver Magazine
Cartier
Chanel
Chivas Regal (Scotch)
Christian Dior
Club Med (Vacations) - Owned in part by Paris based CDC (Caisse des Dépôts
et Consignations)
Culligan (owned by Vivendi)
Dannon (Yogurt & Dairy Foods)
*Decatholon Super Sport Stores or MVP Sport Stores*
* Dassault Systemes-(CATIA design software)*
DKNY - LVMH acquired 100% of Gabrielle Studio Inc., the privately owned licenser of Donna Karan trademarks back in 2001.
*DMC THREADS
Dom Perignon
Durand Crystal
Elle Magazine
*Emile Henry French Cookware
*Enertec makes high speed recorders used in Recon aircraft
Essilor Optical Products
Evian
Fina Gas Stations
Fina Oil - Billions invested in Iraqi Oil fields
First Hawaiian Bank
George Magazine
Givenchy
*Grey Goose Vodka
*Groupe Shneider, owner of Modicon and Square D
*Guerlain Fragrances
Hennessy
Houghton Mifflin (books)
International Herald Tribune - 181 ave Charles-de-Gaulle - F-92521 Neuilly - FRSource:World Business Council for Sustainable Development '00 [Domain Registration], [Corporate Profile]
Jacobs Creek - Owned by Pernod Ricard since 1989
Jameson (wiskey)
Jerry Springer (talk show)
Krups (coffee and cappaccino makers)
Lancome
Le Creuset (Cookware)
L'Oreal (Health & Beauty Products)
Louis Vuitton
Marie Claire
Martel Cognac
Maybelline
Méphisto (Footwear & Apparel)
Michelin (Tires & Auto Parts) - Their phone number is: (33) 1 45 66 15 53 in France
Mikasa Crystal and Glass (purchased by ARC int'l in 2001)
Moet (Champagne)
Motel 6 - 33, Avenue du Maine- 75755 Paris Cedex 15 France
Motown Records
MP3.com
Mumms (Champagne)
Nissan (Cars) - Majority owned by Renault
Nivea
Normany Butter
Parents Magazine
Peugeot (Automobiles) - Pronounced "Pooh Joe", must be French
Pierre Cardin
Playstation Magazine
ProScan - Owned by Thomson Electronics, France
Publicis Group (Including: Saatchi & Saatchi Advertising)
RCA (televisions & electronics) - Owned by Thomson Electronics, France
Red Magazine
Red Roof Inns - Owned by the Accor group based in France
Renault (Automobiles)
Road & Track Magazine
Roquefort Cheese - All Roquefort cheese is made in France
Rowenta (Toasters, Irons, Coffee makers, etc)
Royal Canadian
Salomon (Skis)
Seagram's Gin
Sierra Software and Computer Games
*Sodexho Alliance* French Food Caterer for the US Marines
*Solid Works Corp.* Div. of Dassault Systems, maker of SolidWorks 3D mechanical design software.
Sofitel (Hotels) - Owned by the Accor group based in France
Sparkletts (Water) - Owned by Danone, based in France
Spencer Gifts
Sundance Channel
Taylor Made (Golf)
Technicolor
T-Fal (Kitchenware)
The Glenlivet (Scotch
Total Gas Stations
UbiSoft (Computer Games)
Uniroyal
Uniroyal Tires - Owned by Michelin
Universal Studios (Music, Movies & Theme Parks) - Universal Studios is owned by Vivendi-Universal, headquartered in Paris France
USFilter
Veritas Group
Veuve Clicquot Champagne
Vittel
Vivendi - Vivendi Headquarters, Paris France
Wild Turkey (bourbon)
*Winchester Firearms (US Repeating Arms)**
Woman's Day Magazine
Yoplait - France-based Sodiaal owns a 50% stake of Yoplait
Yves Saint Laurent
*Yves Rocher Cosmetics
*ZigZag (tobacco papers and roller products)*
Zodiac Inflatable Boats

*New additions to the list thanks to Freepers. If you have an addition, Freepmail me with the URL showing French ownership.

** Sad news but these two companies are owned by the Belgian Company Herstal, (French Light)

I'm asking for volunteers to create a good product list of alternative products. If you are an expert in a category or would like start a list of American or Ally products/services, let me know. I will list the alternative category and have your freeper name as the list keeper. That way people can freep you for your list. Once you get it set up and have a master copy in your FreepMail, you can just copy it for each reply to the request.

35 posted on 03/18/2003 7:38:53 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Stamp out Freepathons! Stop being a Freep Loader! Become a monthly donor!)
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To: Karl B
Poland would only exist in history books without Napoleon.

Napoleon owed much of his early success to Dombrowski's Polish Legions, and all they got in return for their effort was the tiny "Duchy of Warsaw."

36 posted on 03/18/2003 7:43:10 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Karl B
don't constantly try to undermine the attempts to build a coherent power in Europe.

Karl B, I think your image of the EU is a bit rosy. I don't see any organization in which France plays such a prominent role as being disposed towards assisting the U.S. The fact is that we are even now getting support from much of Europe. I think we'd lose some of that support if power was centralized in the E.U., because the EU likely would be paralyzed by the same dissension that currently girps the U.N.

Some countries like England still hesitate and sometimes undermine this construction, now the eastern countries seem to follow this dangerous path.

Which proves the point. The strongest U.S. allies are the ones most reluctant to join in the EU that France is trying to create. They understand that France does not intend the EU to be a brother to the U.S. -- it intends it to be a rival or competitor. Thanks, but we'd rather have those countries as independent allies rather than federated neutrals.

I don't forget the US attitude towards Turkey a few weeks ago. What attitude was that? There was grumbling, but our government did not rebuke them publicly, and expressly stated that we still considered Turkey an ally. Which was a damn site more friendly that Chirac's comments to eastern Europe.

The USA also owes us a lot, by all the ppl that emigrated and made the USA bigger.

By the same logic, France owes North Africa a huge round of thanks for all that immigration. Sorry, but Europe was not benevolently stocking the U.S. with people out of pure altruism. You were basically getting rid of your malcontents. Which may explain why we don't always get along so well.

Karl B., if that EU was headed up by someone who thought like you, or Blair, or Aznar, you might be right. But I think the primary effect would be to further separate us from our allies on the continent.

37 posted on 03/18/2003 7:56:48 AM PST by XJarhead
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To: judicial meanz
I am really starting to think the Poles are our type of people. They have been right there with us all the way.

In 1936 Poland contacted France about launching a joint punitive expedition against Germany, for Germany's violation of the WWI treaty and the League of Nations mandates.

Hitler even admitted that had action been taken at that time he would have pulled out of the Rhineland. France has always had a very shortsighted it it's foreign policy.

38 posted on 03/18/2003 7:59:01 AM PST by Mike Darancette
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To: Karl B
Are you saying Poland needed France to remain a nation-state? The Poles have fought and outlasted more invasions from Germany and Russia than the French could ever dream of doing. Yes, the Poles disappeared from the map even, but they clawed their way back instead of surrendering- not like- well, you know who. What an idiot comment to make.

As for backstabbing the French, go to Normandy to learn about backstabbing. BTW, does every country in the EU not have to consult with every other country before making a decision- perhaps the EU's goal is just to do away with country sovereignty- I guess the diplomats in Brussels really don't understand human nature or even much history for that matter (what is the saying? power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely- guess I know where the EU is headed- and we wonder why the EU appeases tyrants so often)
If Europe is weak, it is only because they have an overregulated, socialistic economy with an extremely low birthrate (ever wonder why europe allows the muslims in? - guess the socialistic enlightened worldview has consequences after all)
As for Eastern Europe, the French and Germans should be grateful for these open markets and low wages, they would be in much worse shape without them. You think companies can survive without going bankrupt in a global economy with the perks the Germans and French give? time to face reality.
Perhaps the west europeans would be better looking at the economy from less of a zero sum situation- they still don't get that low wages and low taxes increases the economic pie after all these years.
Speaking of tyrants, doesn't it embarrass you in the least that Chirac is making excuses and defending a mass murder/torturer/rapist tyrant? Does'nt the idea that France gave this man the means to produce about 100 nuclear weapons by now (back in the 80's) sober you in the least?
Have you heard of the term "nuclear blackmail"?
39 posted on 03/18/2003 8:00:28 AM PST by doglover
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To: judicial meanz
Err...do you mean the same Poles who are ruled by a surrender monkey ex-Communist party which is a proud members of the Socialist Intenational? Chirac's Gaullist party, of course, defeated the French member of the Socialist International last year.
40 posted on 03/18/2003 8:04:51 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: Grampa Dave; baseballmom
Alcatel - Based in Paris France

Anyone who has worked with this equipment knows that it is truly French.....

-It doesn't play well with American networking equipment
-It always fails you at the most inopportune times
-Their tech support always agrees with you after YOU solve the problem and take the credit for it
41 posted on 03/18/2003 8:09:07 AM PST by yay (Philadelphia - The 104% voter turnout city)
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: Karl B
You believe Poland, which was torn in half by the NAZI German Wehrmacht invading from the West and Stalinist Russia's tanks from the East, then held as a colony for forty-odd years is siding against another power pincer movement, this time by Russia and Germany and France...

...because of the CIA?

BWAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

43 posted on 03/18/2003 8:14:13 AM PST by chilepepper (Gnocchi Seuton!)
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: Karl B
The meaning of EU is to build a mirror of the US power for the sake of the western side. Some countries like England still hesitate and sometimes undermine this construction, now the eastern countries seem to follow this dangerous path.

What absolute rubbish, someone ought to drag you outside and whack you with a dead fish for this nonsense. The EU was not presented to most member states who joined as being an alternative superpower. It was supposed to be an economic arrangement; and this is how it was presented to the British public in 1974 when we voted on it.

Now, what you are saying is that we are undermining the "construction" of this entity we do not want. Have you considered the possibility that your own country is undermining it? The vast majority of EU and potential EU states DO NOT agree with you on Iraq. We don't. And Chirac's arrogance in telling Eastern Europe to be quiet is outrageous.

Quite frankly, if you want to heal the rifts in Europe, the best that your country can do right now after shovelling out these heaps of rubbish towards the British, Spanish, Americans, is to do the following:

SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP.

Ivan

46 posted on 03/18/2003 8:20:35 AM PST by MadIvan (Learn the power of the Dark Side, www.thedarkside.net)
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To: Karl B
No thanks to the CIA. Don't underestimate the great work some of your current awks have done there. ;)

Your suggestion that the Poles have arrived at their policy out of no free will of their own is insulting, arrogant, and outrageous.

Say things like this and your country will continue to be hated.

Ivan

47 posted on 03/18/2003 8:22:10 AM PST by MadIvan (Learn the power of the Dark Side, www.thedarkside.net)
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Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: Karl B
Makes you loose all credit to me. Just read what he actually said not what your press said he said.

Typical bloody frog. Your President's words are meaningless; his ACTIONS have been directed towards ensuring that Saddam remains in power. And that is the end of the discussion.

This was supposed to be civil nuclear. But to be honest, under cover it's true that the west and Russia supported him hugely, because Iran was the main threat. There is no reason for you to focus on France specially about it all. But yes I am plain ashamed by the past compromissions of the west in general. I am not naive.

America and Britain NEVER went so far as to sell him a nuclear reactor. In case you haven't been reading here, France has been the broker for Iraq for the Chinese to sell fuel for Iraq's missiles. This occured this year.

That's why I consider Bush is right not compromissing with the errors of the past.

Well you get one part of it right.

Ivan

49 posted on 03/18/2003 8:38:44 AM PST by MadIvan (Learn the power of the Dark Side, www.thedarkside.net)
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To: Karl B
I think and I wish that the results of the post war will open some eyes in Europe.

That is a possibility.

Remember that Frnace assisted you in many conflicts before 2001.

And didn't assist us in many others. It dragged its feet in 1991, eventually sending only a very light force at a very late date that was intentionally placed where it would not see combat. And the refusal to grant overflight rights in 1986 still rankles a lot of people here.

Karl, the reality is that a body such as the enhanced EU you envision is going to be constrained by the views of its individual members. Inertia and deadlocks are going to be the primary characteristics of whatever international outlook it has because there will be too much internal disagreement. It will act as a lease on our true allies, and a forum for our opponents.

The vision of a more united EU may be beneficial from the perspective of some Europeans, but not from the U.S. We like our current crop of allies just fine, because they are free to side with us if they choose. They might not have that freedom if they were part of your enhanced EU.

50 posted on 03/18/2003 8:43:33 AM PST by XJarhead
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