Shop grounded (Looks like R/C Airplanes to be banned?)

The Clanto Advertiser ^ | March 13, 2003 | Jason Green

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

March 13-464, 2003 Shop grounded

By Jason Green

A closed sign sits in the window of Clanton's Hobby Shop. It's been there for three weeks and now it sits next to a recently placed for sale sign.

Store owner Ricky Ritch said that he had little choice but to close his business when the U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security officials asked him to stop selling remote control airplanes, rockets, helicopters and fuel containing more than 20 percent nitroglycerin.

On Wednesday, Ritch received a visit from the Justice department, the Homeland Security department and agents from the FBI's Montgomery and Birmingham field offices. That visit confirmed the items he was selling and custom building are now on a list of items the government believes terrorists have begun to use.

The shop owner said he was shocked at the revelation, but once he began thinking about it, he could see how someone could use like items for less-than upright purposes.

"I have planes and helicopters in stock that could carry a pay-load of 40 pounds or so," he said. "I never thought about any of this stuff being more than toys until I started watching television and saw the big deal they were making out of it. Now I am concerned that something I have built in the past might have been or is being used to harm someone else."

Odd communications

The events which have unfolded in Ritch's life and the life of his relatively new local business have also gotten him thinking about visits and phone calls he has received over the course of the past few months. He said there have been out of the ordinary questions regarding the potential payload capacity of certain aircraft as well as the best possible speed of some of the "toys" he sells.

"I originally just thought it was someone interested in getting into the hobby," he explained. "But, now that I think about it, there have been some calls which really didn't make sense. The questions they asked never really had anything to do with getting into the hobby."

Ritch said he is now left with the fear that items he has already built have fallen into the hands of people whom could potentially do harm to American citizens. It's a fear that Ritch never thought he would have to deal with.

"It's just not something I ever thought about happening," He said. "I don't want to think about it."

Also, in 1998 while living in Los Angeles, Ritch said he built 20 aircraft for an individual in California who never wanted a receipt and always paid in cash. The customer told Ritch that he was purchasing the aircraft for friends overseas. There were questions in Ritch's mind then as to what was actually going on, but it wasn't until the customer became more and more insistent that Ritch build the aircraft bigger and more powerful that the local shop owner cut ties and ceased working for that person.

Business future

For Ritch, the items he has been encouraged not to sell make up approximately 90 percent of the current stock he has on the shelves of his Second Avenue business.

"I stand to lose about $125,000 because of this," Ritch explained. "The things that make money here are the planes and the fuel. The United Parcel Service and Federal Express are no longer allowed to deliver the types of fuel that it takes to power most of the items I sell. I've basically been put out of business."

Ritch said the only items left on his shelves the government hasn't encouraged him to refrain from selling are a few glue-together models, some remote controlled cars and NASCAR memorabilia. In fact, the remote control cars do Ritch little good, he said, because the fuel it takes to make the vehicles capable of high performance activity can't be delivered. Once the fuel Ritch currently has in stock runs out, it will take an ATF license to purchase and distribute more.

With that in mind, Ritch said he had little choice but to begin thinking about the future of his business. He can either completely change the items his business carries or he can pack everything up and wait. That wait would be until May 24, when Congress reconvenes to discuss the matter of model aircraft and remote controlled aircraft being used by terrorists in attacks.

"I was so disturbed by the entire ordeal that I called my real estate agent and told them to put the store on the market," he added. "As long as it sits there I'm losing money and if I can't sell the items that make me money, it's not much of a business."

Ritch, who is also attempting to sell his home in Clanton and planning to build another in the area, said he doesn't know what his next step is.

He said he must now consider moving into a smaller store and changing the kinds of toys he sells.

Gladly complying

Ritch indicated he wasn't told to close his store. However, being unable to sell 90 percent of his stock apparently leaves him with no other viable options. Selling the fuel Ritch currently has in stock will require specific actions in compliance with Homeland Security mandates. The purchaser, as will Ritch, will have to be licensed with the ATF and will be required to undergo background checks among other measures prior to the merchandise changing hands.

Ritch said that it's hard for him to imagine having to do that. Based on information given to him by the FBI and Homeland Security, he has little choice. He will comply.

"I don't think the FBI or Homeland Security or the U.S. Justice Department are organizations that I can take on," he said. "I'll do what they've asked me to do and have I'll have to deal with it. I just could not have imagined this ever happening. All I know is that I would hate to be the guy that sold something that was used to blow something up or was used to knock a plane out of the sky."

Ray Zicarelli, an agent with the Mobile FBI Field Office, said late Thursday afternoon that he could not confirm whether or not agents had been in Clanton. However, he did confirm that there was be some interest in some hobby shops throughout the country.

"There has been no nation-wide canvassing of hobby shops, but the FBI is interested in some hobby shops as they apply to model aircraft," Zicarelli said. "We do not comment on which we have contacted based on security issues. I can say that we have no indication that there is any cause for concern in the area."

[GladesGuru]

Given that RC control units are capable of quite complex control surface movements, the building of a crude model capable of carrying quite a large payload is both feasible and well within the capability of anyone with some cash, good hand eye coordination, and access to a library with a stock of old model airplane magazines.

However, any chainsaw can be used as a power unit for a large model - is ATF going to have a requirement for background checks for chainsaw purchasers? Oops - perhaps I confused ATF with GangGreen (your local enviro-MENTAL FREAK organization).

Those whackos would like all chainsaw owners registered.

What about BBQ tanks and flour? As a gentleman (retired from Special Forces)
I know said, "Consider a Cherry bomb in the middle of a coffee can full of flour, but make sure you use an electrical ignition source."

I asked why the electrical ignition warning and was told "Because you can't run fast enough to survive the blast if you use a match."

Think he was jesting? Check how little flour it takes to create a silo explosion. Did you also pull up some silo explosion pics on Google.com?

Any widely dispersed combustible material with a fast flame front propigation rate is capable of causing a very damaging blast. Ckeck 'fuel air bombs at Google.com and you can download a short video of one in action courtesy of the US Navy.

MORAL: DETERRNCE, - - NOT SURRENDER!

Deter whackos. Don't give up your free society. Otherwise, it will be model planes first, then BBQ tanks, finally flour will have to be registered.

Can't you just see it now. Jimmy Buffet is mixing up a batch of pancake mix for his family on Sunday morning when BATF agents do a 'Forced Entry' screaming "Drop the flour!
Assume the Position!"

A BATF "agent" mistakes the spatula for:
1. A SS handgun.
2. A sword.
3. A knife.
4. "Lethal weapon, as defined by him on the spur of the
moment.

Result: Jimmy is 'buffeted' by a hail of 9mm and - No more
Margaritaville music.

Surprise! surprise! surprise! ALong with all that firepower, BATF arrived with confiscation papers for the property, all music royalty rights, and his youngest daughter.

Wait a minute - we are talking Left Coast here. They also take his youngest boy.

Before you start flaming me, what if this happened in Kalifornia? What wouldn't a Left Coast Judge allow?

There is no end to what can be damaging if mis-used by the willfully destructive. Those used to be called "evil".

In this Republic, we can't allow our freedoms to be nibbled away by a flock of quacking socialist ducks. Rather than give up model airplanes, chainsaws, flour, and propane BBQ's, etc., elect politicians more like GW Bush than "Our Bill" & the HilaBeast.

We get, deserve, and have to live with the consequences of - voting. In a Republic, voting (by an informed electorate) and the political process is second in importance only to breathing.

Register whackos (Islamic, enviro, etc.), not things. Things don't kill people. Whackos kill people.

Given the damning evidence of the negative impact of the last Democratic administration under the Clintons - Could we require BATF registration to register as a Democrat?

[TXnMA]

Note the fuel used. It's not correct. It's nitromethane not nitroglycerin

You beat me to it! So-called "hot" model engine (and dragster) fuels are mostly nitromethane. However, nitromethane has been described as "the simplest nitrogen-based high explosive" -- and, packaged with an appropriate oxidizer, is sold as a commercial binary (mix immediately before use) explosive. (Deliberately being vague here...)

Of course, R/C transmitter/receiver/servo combinations have been used by middle eastern terrorists to trigger bombs.

BTW, were any of you FReepers aware that those suspected of bombing the Murrah Building in OKC visited a model shop shortly before the bombing? And that an Iraqi caught an overseas flight from OKC shortly thereafter -- and that his luggage was found to contain "several car radios and other bomb-making materials and tools". (So-described by Italian customs, who discovered them.)

I've often wondered if mis-translation masked the true nature of those "car radios"...

I build models -- and certainly don't advocate shutting down our hobby. OTOH, A good "Heads-up" to model shops across the nation seems in order...

-----------------

Of course, nowadays, the terrs seem to favor cell phones for triggering bombs.

Hmmm -- perhaps a computer program that rapidly and repeatedly cycles through all cell numbers, giving each a ring... Might give some terrorists a few nasty surprises...

'-}

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

Result: Jimmy is 'buffeted' by a hail of 9mm and - No more Margaritaville music. Surprise! surprise! surprise! ALong with all that firepower, BATF arrived with confiscation papers for the property, all music royalty rights, and his youngest daughter. Wait a minute - we are talking Left Coast here. They also take his youngest boy.

Jimmy Buffet lives in Flordia, and I am pretty sure he is a conservative. On the opposite end of the political scale of his uncle Warren Buffet.

[B4Ranch]

A good "Heads-up" to model shops across the nation seems in order...

I wonder how many Iraqis/Muslims own these hobby shops? Are they contributing to their communities the way you and I would expect them to or are we going to see some surprises?

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

Nitrimethane is not classified as an explosive. However it is a monopropellent, but it is not very volitle and difficult to ignite without mixing with air. You can pour some in a bowl and put a match to it and it will put out the match. But you need to be carefull when using it in a hard metal tank. The metal, alkili, and nitro can create a combination which will make the nitro explode with a hard contact such as a crash. Dragracers will wash out their fuel tanks with a mild acid and dry them before filling them up to avoid this.

[TXnMA]

Nitrimethane is not classified as an explosive.

FWIW, I am a physical chemist -- and I fear that you are under-informed: As you, yourself, noted in your final statement, nitromethane (properly catalyzed and/or highly shocked) is capable of detonation. In other workds, it is a high explosive.

For your enlightenment, I offer the following on-line technical papers as references:

http://www.cyberhost3.com/nitronic/research8/shelly.html

A great part of the considerable interest devoted to nitromethane, the simplest explosive nitro compound, is related to the understanding of the chemical mechanism of initiation of detonation. Experimental observations show that a careful study of the methyl group, in particular that of the highly excited [[nu]](CH) vibrational states, could bring some information to elucidate the initial chemical mechanism of decomposition, including the means by which intramolecular energy transfer processes can occur. Actually, one interesting peculiarity of the methyl group in nitromethane is the low value of the potential barrier to internal rotation, which is essentially free at normal temperature. Its coupling with the other vibrations, especially with the CH stretching modes, could affect the vibrational energy redistribution and thus the nitromethane reactivity.

and...

http://www.aps.org/BAPSSHOCK97/abs/S1700.html#SG1.005

Session G1 - Nitromethane.
MIXED session, Tuesday morning, July 29 CCA,

[G1.01] Mechanism of Chemical Decomposition in a Shocked Condensed Explosive

Based on these P-T Hugoniot data, we construct the detonation diagram of nitromethane, which consists of no-detonation, super-detonation, normal-detonation zones. In the super-detonation zone between 12 and 19 GPa, the shock-compressed nitromethane detonates with a significant induction time; whereas, the detonation occurs nearly instaneously in the normal-detonation zone above 19 GPa.

[TXnMA]

I should have checked those reference URLs before posting them. It looks like one of them has even been preempted by one of those nefarious "domain grabbers" who re-route traffic to undesirable locations.

Those papers were, indeed online when I used them as references a couple of years ago (while doing research on the compositon of the OKC truck bomb). However, like many things in this new medium, they obviously had a limited lifetime. (Webserver filespace is obviously considered to be more valuable and recyclable than printed journals...)

If you are truly interested in pursuing the nitromethane issue, FReepmail me, and I will dig out some current articles for you. Again, apologies for cutting-and-pasting old references without checking...

[Jhoffa_]

stop selling remote control airplanes, rockets, helicopters and fuel containing more than 20 percent nitroglycerin.

I believe this should be the oxidizer rich, nitromethane instead. I also think 40 lbs is too high, stopped reading there.

Besides, what's to stop some guy with a minivan and a garden sprayer from doing the same thing?

[JoshGray]

Nitromethane MSDS

[spunkets]

"However, nitromethane has been described as "the simplest nitrogen-based high explosive" -

It's not an explosive at all. It's a very high octane fuel that contains some oxidant. The model airplane engine is a diesel. This fuel just allows the engine to work w/o being sensitive to F/A ratio.

[TXnMA]

Here's a current, corrected URL for the technical session abstracts that should have been accessible via the second link I posted:

http://flux.aps.org/meetings/YR97/BAPSSHOCK97/abs/S1700.html

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

TXnMA,
I probably should have been a bit more specific in my statement. Pure nitromethane is shock sensitive, but not very. However, nitromethane as sold for racing fuel is diluted with a small amount of acetone (and maybe some other substances) and has a yellow indicator. The indicator turns purple (I think, never had this happen) in the presence of alkili. It is then considered shock sensitive and dangerous to use. I have seen cans banged and cars crashed rupturing the tank with out the nitro exploding.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

spunkets,
Nitro is about the lowest octane fuel I can think of. In racing engines detonation (not the explosion type)is a big problem when using 100% racing nitro. It is cured with very low compression ratios (I think some are below 5:1 now), and very rich mixtures. The fuel air mixtures are now so high that a restriction of the air flow can cause it to richen up enough to ruin the engine with hydralic lock. That is where there is so much unvaporized fuel that it's volume is smaller than the comubstion chamber. Since liquid is relatively uncompressable this will break the pistons, rods, and head.

[spunkets]

Here's a link that gives some idea of how shock sensitive it is. It requires a reletively large volume and a large charge to set it off. Nitric acid itself can be set off like that. Otherwise it requires large temps and pressures. Neither one is considered a practical explosive, but are components of.

Vrroooom!

I stepped out for a smoke yesterday and some neighborhood kids were playing with their model rocket. It was nice to see. The control nuts are after that too.

[jimt]

The model fuels use alcohol and nitromethane, not nitroglycerin. They are not explosive, only flammable.

Nitromethane is used an explosive, properly detonated. A buddy of mine developed an oil well-head severing system using nitromethane.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

This on the AMA website. http:/www.modelaircraft.org

Important Notice
(added 03/10/03)
There has been much communication over the last few days stemming from an Internet-based online subscription intelligence news service release. This concerned the potential use of radio-controlled aircraft by terrorists.

One of the greatest threats facing our sport during these times of concern for our national security is not so much the "news items" that appear on the Internet, but more importantly, the seemingly endless exchanges of these items.

While the Internet is certainly a wonderful tool to facilitate communication, it is hard to verify accuracy. The impression may be given that these stories are factual even when they are not.

We have investigated stories concerning terrorists using model aircraft and rockets and have found them to be inaccurate due to translation errors or from the reporter looking for shock value to "sell" the message.

It is important that we not contribute to this proliferation, particularly when the accuracy of the information may be in doubt.

AMA Headquarters is working diligently to maintain our flying activities. Should you encounter information you feel is important, please relay it to us. Please do not broadcast the information on the Web to thousands who may stumble upon it without fully appreciating the potential impact.

We want to assure you that AMA, as a result of the September 11th incident, has been communicating with several federal government agencies concerned with terrorism.

Due to these efforts, there currently are no plans by the authorities to increase the level of restrictions placed on model aircraft activities.

Should any significant changes occur concerning this situation, we will immediately provide factual information updates from AMA Headquarters and through the AMA Web site.

—Jay Mealy

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

The paper updated the story Saturday.

March 15-206, 2003
Hobby Shop news causes stir nationally


By Jason Green


A FBI representative from the Mobile Field Office said Thursday the organization was not canvassing all hobby shops in the country in regard to the sale of large-scale remote control aircraft. However, word that a local business had received a visit from officials from the FBI, Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice created a stir.

Calls from throughout country flooded The Clanton Advertiser on Friday and email boxes Saturday morning were full of questions regarding the story's validity.

A law enforcement official did confirm that there was some interest in Clanton Hobby Shop owner Ricky Ritch, but also pointed out that the interest might have a lot to do with actions taken by Ritch three weeks earlier.

It was learned late Friday through the Associated Press Ritch had made first contact with the previously mentioned departments when he found information on the Internet concerning Homeland Security's interest in items similar to those Ritch can build and has built in the past. The source indicated Ritch became concerned that some of the items he had built in the past might have fallen into the hands of those wishing to do harm to America through terrorist activity.

When the FBI looked into Ritch's business, they found that some of the items are being looked into by Homeland Security. However, the organization maintains that Ritch was not told not to sell any of his items and was not told to close his business.

Ritch also claimed that UPS and Federal Express were not allowed to deliver fuel over 20 percent nitromethane to him.

Calls to hobby shops across the state, including some in the Birmingham and Montgomery areas, found that none of the businesses had been contacted by the Department of Justice, Homeland Security or the FBI. Also, they indicated there has thus far been no trouble in getting fuel delivered by either UPS or Federal Express.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

Fertalizer is an explosive when you add desiel fuel. That doesn't make it an explosive.

[The Great Satan]

"I have planes and helicopters in stock that could carry a pay-load of 40 pounds or so," he said.

Marvelous!

[Liberal Classic]

How did we ever survive until now?!

With model rockets, remote control airplanes, chemistry sets all being suspect, how can children of the future be expected to be interested in science? Take away toy guns and toy soldiers, and we're raising a generation with no practical experience in science or conflict.