CNN: Apache helicopters shot up in Republican Guard attack

CNN live ^ | March 23, 2003 | cnn

[mikegi]

Live report from Karl Penhaul after Apache choppers attacked Republican Guards near Karbala (sp?). This is north of Najaf and WSW 70mi of Baghdad.

He reports that our Apaches were shot up pretty bad. The IRG put up a "wall" of AAA. After returning to base, Apaches were "strewn around" instead of being parked neatly. He wouldn't confirm that all our Apaches made it back.

[mikegi]

Let's get real here, people. B-52's have no capability against enemy armor.

Why wouldn't a 1000lb JDAM have any capability against armor? If it isn't moving, it seems like a JDAM would be the perfect weapon.

[section9]

Ah HA!! That is exactly what I've been ranting about all day. The media is concentrating WAAAAAAY too hard on making it look like we're losing this war, and we have hardly even begun. I turned off all the media feed in disgust a few hours ago, because I was so SICK of hearing the same three stories stated and restated, combined and recombined over and over all day long, in an effort to make them seem like 'new' news.

Geez, the Hammurabi division only has ninety T-72's. We killed 70. Sounds like the Air Cav had a good day. This leaves them with the equivalent of a couple of companies and BMP's.

No wonder we threw the Apaches at them tonight.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[grimalkin]

IIRC, the media did the same thing in the opening stages of operations in Afghanistan. And some FR posters jumped to back up the propaganda

You're absolutely right. One only needs to go to this previous FR post: Mistaken Wartime Predictions from the Punditry

[John H K]

There seems to be a real problem today with the Coalition getting out its message about battle accomplishments...I can't figure it out...all negative today from all fronts

I frankly had it with both the media and FR today.....went and watched "Patton" on DVD just now. I feel a little better

The Bilious Bastards of the media were expected, that so many people on FR would buy into their pants-wetting and hand-wringing and defeatism is apalling. And it's not DU disruptors, either, seems like FR regulars getting all weak-kneed and panicky and critical.

[cookcounty]

Karbala was a major center of Shi'ite uprising in 1991.

[timestax]

Exactly, I'm getting sick of our gentleman's war approach. Carpet bomb the sh!t out of these bastards for a week or two and then send in our guys. 6 posted on 03/23/2003 7:53 PM PST by Sunnyvale CA Eng. [

DITTO !!

[Scott from the Left Coast]

They are also damn easy to shoot down, and they are not designed for close ground support.

[Arkinsaw]

Ah HA!! That is exactly what I've been ranting about all day. The media is concentrating WAAAAAAY too hard on making it look like we're losing this war, and we have hardly even begun.

We are NOT losing the war. And people here who question things are not saying we are. Its okay to ask WHY those Apaches had to run into a AAA gauntlet to get to those tanks. Its okay to ask why the Marines at Umm Qasr last night couldn't just ask for a bomb on target instead of hunkering down for four hours. Its okay to ask how a supply company wandered away and got captured without massive air support rushing to them immediately. Its okay to ask this stuff. Its not traitorous to question these things.

[cake_crumb]

"And we're wringing our hands over this???"

Methinks that some of the 'handwringing' on this thread is as sincere as Daschle saying he's saddened that the president failed so miserably at diplomacy and the deaths of American troops would be his fault.

[blam]

"I was just explaining to my wife the blast radius of a 20 megaton nuke. She said my God you would kill everyone in Baghdad and I said, "Yeah, that is about right.".......and?"

Baghdad is about the size of Houston, Texas...right?

[Theophilus]

Now, why would the rules prohibit him from saying "Yes, all came back"?

In case they ever don't, you don't want to set a precedent by saying they do when they do. The safest bet is to always say nothing. Then you can greatly improve your odds of recovering air crews.

[Stavka2]

B-52s don't fly close support. What they do is shock and wonders on infantry. Secondly actually they can do a lot against enemy armor, there is no armor on top and even a close hit will cause concussion to the crew and make them combat ineffective...hard to fight while your ears, nose and eyes are bleeding. Enemy armor only survives if its in concrete bunkers. If you are going to use Apaches, you need to bring in armor as well to over whelm the enemy.

[Wavyhill]

I have never understood the tendency of some right-wingers to believe that they're more loyal to the cause if they scream defeatism. Are you more loyal to the Fighting Irish if you keep bitching that they don't have a chance? Yet when some woman called Rush Limbaugh saying that "America is over," all the doom-and-gloomers called him a sellout for not agreeing with her. I think many of them feel guilty for not doing more themselves.

[Justa]

I think it's kinda, no Really dumb to send the Apaches out in formation or in a mass. That allows their AAA to fire at their formations with greater chance of hitting them. Imo the best strategy would be to send them out continually, in ones-and-twos, attacking from different directions all day/night long. That would run the Iraqi air defenses through their ammuntion and wear them out quickly while the crews would remain rested. They're not fending off FW-190s.

[HardStarboard]

>>>I would not want to go against an enemy with our pallet of brushes!<<<

And I wouldn't want to go up against "Rotorhawk" in any discussion of the effectiveness of the Apache like "mikegi" tried to in post #110. Wish I had the clearance to take you up on the offer Rotor....but my TS clearance lapsed in 1964. Cheers

[Centurion2000]

Why attack armour with Apaches instead of A-10's?

Because Apaches are one of the few aircraft in the world BETTER at killing tanks than A-10's are.

16 Hellfires and that 30mm chain gun operating in concert ... it's like watching Death herself walk over the battlefield and pick out the victims.

Throw in 76 2.75in DP ICM rockets (alternate loadout) and they can kill faster than Cecil B DeMille.

[Scott from the Left Coast]

A thousand pound bomb against a tank? Do you use a shotgun against a spider in your house?

1,000 pound bombs can take out large buildings, you don't need to waste that expensive a weapon on a tank!!! This war would cost trillions and trillions if you needed to use ordnance like that on a tank. A simple Hellfire missile will do -- and they did, to the tune of 70 enemy tanks. There won't be enough punch left in that Division to stop a troop of boyscouts after that engagement.

[Stavka2]

Apaches don't attack an attacking tank force from behind, they attack from behind a terrain feature. They hover behind a rise while recon choppers, Baby Bells, scout out enemy formations...Longbows do this with built in radar. They then pop up long enough to target, lock on and release, at which point they hide back down. When ammunition is down or the enemy is to close, they scoot back behind the friendly armor.

[PokeyJoe]

Actually, there are some "smart" tactical munitions delivered by MLRS that will deploy over the target area, spinning like a frisbee with a radar synthetic apeture radar, and an onboard fuzzy logic computer chip detects "that's a truck" "that's an M1" "That's a T-72... oh goody... a bad one.... here I go guys, wish me luck" and it fires a rocket and blows the lid off the tank with a charge of super heated plasma injected into the top of the tank behind the turret.

Play smarter, not harder. that's my motto.