Kurds and Turks [Turkish Editorial]

Mountain people are for the most part isolated and poor

I apologize for going back to a European example because I don't think you like talking about Europe, but if you look at Switzerland, it has no natural resoures except water. There are no major deposits of valuable ores in its mountains. And yet, this remote, poor region was able to create a state.

In fact, I would argue that this lack of natural resouces was to its advantage. More powerful states surrounding it never waged a war of conquest for a bunch of remote "high rocks" that had no material wealth to yield to them. (Yes, there are exceptions to what I just said. But Switzerland was only used as a transit route, and the invaders quickly left because the region was poor and had no natrual wealth to expoit.)

Switzerland became prosperous by becoming a service economy. It developed an extensive banking system. At one time it was a major manufacturer of watches with moving parts before the digital revolution. Swiss chocolate is world famous, and yet there is not one cocoa tree growing in Switzerland. (And if we focus only on countries without natural resources, Japan has very few. It must import all of its oil, iron ore, etc., and yet it has one of the largest economies in the world).

So I would offer that this argument that the Kurds were poor (that is they had no natural resouces) is not sufficient to explain their lack of state, since there are many examples of successful, prosperous states that are poor in natural resources.

So this brings us back to the question, what was the real reason that this mountain people (Kurds) did not form a state.

I am only talking about mountain people of the mediterranean basin, specifically the east.

Your argument about the Swiss and the Japanese is absolutely correct. The concept doesn't apply to the N. East, however. The Japanese (and other poorer in resources groups) benefited from trade, extensive fishing, spoils of war, etc. They also had a specific life-view that pushed their societies towards progress, nation building, and ,to some degree, aggression.

No such mentality or capability can be found in the mountain people of Anatolia, or similar areas. It has a lot to do with a people's particular vision and outlook, as well as resources.

Take for example the craft of cheese making in the area (I'm a food trivia hobbyist). There are 3-4 kinds of cheese that have seen absolutely no evolution in the past 500 years. "Why change it? It tastes fine!" -that's the mentality.

In contrast, swiss cheesemakers have strived to perfect their process, experimented with new milk blends, textures, markets, variety.

That is the difference in a nutshell!

Mountain people in the area never aspired to have a state. They were happy being left alone to herd sheep and grow their tubers. The "state" idea for them is a new one, conceived after the Greek struggle of liberation from the Ottoman Empire in 1821. After the Balkan Wars, even.

Some schmuck extremists who visualized power for themselves stirred trouble in the plains, convinced their mountain brethren they need to be independant (yeah! that's the ticket!) and provoked the authorities.

When retaliation came, they shouted "genocide, genocide!"

The rest is history.

Your argument about the Swiss and the Japanese is absolutely correct. The concept doesn't apply to the N. East, however. The Japanese (and other poorer in resources groups) benefited from trade, extensive fishing, spoils of war, etc. They also had a specific life-view that pushed their societies towards progress, nation building, and ,to some degree, aggression.

No such mentality or capability can be found in the mountain people of Anatolia, or similar areas. It has a lot to do with a people's particular vision and outlook, as well as resources.

It took us a while to get there, but I think we are arriving at an explanation that makes a lot of sense. It is a complex of many factors, but the "vision and outlook" seems to me to play a crucial role.

Thank you for an interesting and stimulating discussion, but now I must attend to other things.

My apoligies.

I made a mistake in posting that as your response did not warrant it. To much beer on my part. I think I posted to the wrong thread.

Thats why I thought it funny that you said Liquid instead of Likud.

Israeli Extremist? That is also funny as ten years ago I was called an anti-semite and now I am an extremist. My views are still the same but the worlds propoganda machine is out of whack.

I will take your post as a compliment. I do apoligize for my misdirected post.

Perhaps the Swiss are isolated examples?

I think you need to add more cultures that evolved on the mountains and then formed a worthy government if you want to make that a valid argument.

Personally, I can not think of to many that make the grade but like I said, perhaps the Swiss are the exception rather than the rule.

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