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"Unlike the American troops, we look the Iraqis in the eye"
The Daily Telegraph U.K. ^ | 4-05-03 | Not attributed

Posted on 05/04/2003 3:04:58 PM PDT by WaterDragon

He counts his unit's kills meticulously, each one a tick in black pen on his khaki helmet which is, by now, bleached by the sun and battered from battle. Perched in the turret of his tank, just behind the barrel that is hand-painted with intimidating war cries such as "kill 'em all" or "I'm a motherf***ing warrior", he talks only to those Iraqis with the temerity to approach: he feels vulnerable without a 60-ton Abrams girding his loins. It is impossible to read anything in his eyes because they are always obscured by mirrored sunglasses.

Only in the safety of his unit's headquarters, behind barbed wire and protected by heavy weaponry, does the American marine take off his body armour and helmet. On the streets of Baghdad, out on patrol, he is wary and ill at ease.

Friendly approach: an Irish Guard patrols the streets of Basra Every Iraqi is a potential troublemaker, a possible target. If one fails to stop at his checkpoint, his response will be to open fire. If more than 50 gather to chant anti-American slogans, he will likely flood the street with soldiers. If he so much as suspects that the crowd has weapons he may well consider a full-scale counter-attack.

Still in full battle dress, though the war is over, he is awesome to behold. His President insists that he was never a member of an invading force, that he was a liberator and is now a peacekeeper. Yet much of the time he is loathed, despised and spat upon by those Iraqis for whose freedom he fought. He and his comrades are among the most hated men in the Iraqi capital.

The manner in which the American forces stormed their way to Baghdad may indeed have been awesome. They fought the war with verve, with valour and with steely determination. How they are holding the peace, however, makes a woeful contrast.

British troops, by comparison, are welcomed in southern Iraq with cries of "We love you Britannia, welcome British." In the south, the British not only won the trust of the locals during the war and used it effectively to gather vital intelligence, they kept it in the aftermath. The Americans, hampered by much stricter rules of engagement and with little experience of peacekeeping, are swiftly losing the battle for hearts and minds.

On the streets of Basra, Safwan and Az Zubayr in southern Iraq, British soldiers, with years of experience of dealing with civilian populations in war zones such as Northern Ireland and of peacekeeping in the Balkans and Sierra Leone, are treated as saviours. They have abandoned their helmets in favour of their more people-friendly berets, have taken off their body armour and mingle with the locals. They have helped to set up a local police force and a council to get the city's infrastructure running smoothly.

"Have you met my buddy Ahmed?" says Sergeant Euan Andrews, from the 7th Parachute Regiment of the Royal Horse Artillery, as he swings an arm around an Iraqi by his side outside the freshly painted Basra police station.

Ahmed, beaming in a baseball cap emblazoned with the words "City of Basra police" in Arabic and holding a truncheon, punches his new friend in playful camaraderie. "A month ago we were shooting at each other," says Euan, "now we are on the same side."

As Ahmed, chest swelling with pride, steps out to deal with the next car check by himself, Euan gives him an encouraging nod. "They're all getting there," he says. "It will take time. There is still a lot of: 'He is my cousin, my friend, he is ok.' We have had to explain that police must be impartial. But slowly we are getting there."

That afternoon the soldiers are playing football against the locals and in the evening they have volunteered to repaint the local school. The Iraqis loiter to chat as they pass the station, shaking soldiers by the hand and bringing them home-cooked meals. "Our methods of dealing with the locals are very, very different from that of the Yanks," one officer says over a cup of local coffee. ("Awful," he says, "but they like it when we drink it.")

"Unlike the Americans we have taken off our helmets and sunglasses and we look the locals in the eye. If we see one vehicle heading at speed towards a checkpoint we let it through. It is only one vehicle. We call our method "raid and aid" - don't ask me what we call the American way."

In Basra, raid and aid worked. For two weeks the 7th Armoured Brigade waited at the bridge before entering the city. During that time it built up its relationship with those Iraqis brave enough to provide intelligence about the Fedayeen - Saddam's loyalist fighters - who had held the city to ransom.

The result was that when the British did enter, they knew where to go, who to go after and who to trust. For them the rules of engagement changed as warfare became peacekeeping. Now, they no longer automatically return fire. They wait. Often Iraqi gunfire is a sign of celebration at the return of electricity or running water. They know it is not necessarily attacking fire.

The Americans are, admittedly, bound by much less flexible rules. Their Force Protection Doctrine decrees that all soldiers must wear helmets and body armour in a war zone at all times and that gun fire must be met with response. They also have little experience in the peacekeeping arena, and their experience of urban warfare in the battle for Hue during the Vietnam war and more recently in Somalia has left them jumpy.

The British have learned in the past 30 years that good information on the enemy was their best protection and that putting soldiers at risk to get it was justified; jungle ambushes in Vietnam made the Americans obsessed with "force protection".

Since the killing of four American soldiers by an Iraqi suicide bomber 10 days into the conflict, they have become even more wary of locals.

Last week, Americans killed 15 people - among them two young boys - at Fallujah, an impoverished Shia area 30 miles west of Baghdad - when locals became angry at their occupation of the local school. Though the US troops say they fired in self-defence - and may well have done so - television footage of bleeding Iraqis, clearly unarmed, lying on the roads, have shocked Western viewers.

In Baghdad, where the Americans rarely leave their compounds, lawlessness is widespread. On Friday, when locals realised that Saddam's sister owned a lavish home in Al Jadria in the west of the city, they stormed the house. Pianos, furniture and paintings were dragged away by a mob of looters. When US soldiers arrived they stopped only long enough to warn journalists not to remove anything or they would be arrested, then left the mob rampaging through the house. "I'm not going near that lot," one marine said. "I don't feel safe anywhere near them, unless I am behind a whopping big tank."

In the more affluent areas of Al Mansour and Al Kaarada, local families have been forced to build barricades to keep out thieves as the American soldiers refuse to patrol.

In the Shia ghettos of Saddam City and Khadamia, where the Americans are reluctant to go even in tanks, the local imams have taken matters in hand. "Imams have set up local security stations in the hospitals," says Yousef al Alwani. "Guns that have been looted, many from Saddam's palace, are brought to the mosques and from there the imams take them to the hospital and arm the local militia who are now policing us. The Americans don't protect us and they don't help us. What else are they doing but occupying us?"

Cultural background, say military analysts, explains much of the British success in southern Iraq. "Britain and other European nations have imperial traditions," says Stuart Crawford, a retired lieutenant colonel in the 4th Royal Tank Regiment. "As a result, British troops have been inculcated with the ethos and tradition of colonial policing, where small numbers of men would have close contact on a daily basis with local populations. But America is a young country with no colonial past."

In some respects it is a paradox that Britain, which once ruled an empire, should have a more flexible and sensitive army than America.

At the end of the 19th century, the howitzer and the Maxim gun were the equivalent of the cruise missile and the tankbuster. To maintain control yet allow and encourage people to live in their traditional ways, they became accustomed to understanding and respecting local culture and customs. It is a lesson that the American army has yet, it seems, to learn.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: allies; american; antiamerican; boorishness; british; drivel; iraqifreedom; mediabias; order; totalbs; troops
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To: stinkypew
What the hades is a fair fight in combat?
101 posted on 05/04/2003 5:25:07 PM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: WaterDragon
but write a courteous letter about these articles, and it disappears into a black hole.

LOL! Well, I think mine is probably already destined for oblivion but not because of its topic.

102 posted on 05/04/2003 5:28:50 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Beck_isright
No need to resort to threats. Stick to the facts. I stand by my statement. Aside from defeatist, Popular-Front France getting whupped in 1940, I say they've done well. Even in 1870, Paris held out throughout the winter, and fresh armies were being raised in the provinces.

They were grossly outnumbered in Vietnam.

I'm weak on the history of the Algerian war, but I don't recall reading anything about the French regularly getting beat in the field. Were there even any pitched battles?

103 posted on 05/04/2003 5:29:47 PM PDT by stinkypew
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To: stinkypew
Re Algeria: The French sent in troops earlier this year (without a UN resolution!!!!!) to protect French citizens during the civil war there, and to set up a government friendly to the French.

More recently, France asked the U.N. to send in troops, because French troops are cornered and need rescuing. The U.S. vetoed the resolution! Hah!
104 posted on 05/04/2003 5:32:59 PM PDT by WaterDragon (Only America has the moral authority and the resolve to lead the world in the 21st Century.)
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To: The Hon. Galahad Threepwood
You know, the danger in responding to any and all criticism with hatred and bile is that one never improves.

You're absolutely right about that. I think the point the author makes that it's England's colonial history that gives it a leg up with the locals is right on.

Just like the subjects of the Roman Empire preferred Roman citizenship to the citizenship of their homeland, subjects of the British Empire felt much the same. Can you imagine how awful the situation in India must have been for a divided classes loving society like England to be appalled?

The article doesn't mention though that the Americans are loved in the North, where an appreciation of grit, tenacity and wariness are truly great.

It is to our credit that we're not bent on Empire, and that all we ask (in the words of C. Powell) is for enough land to bury our dead.

105 posted on 05/04/2003 5:33:50 PM PDT by AlbionGirl (A kite flies highest against the wind, not with it. - Winston Churchill)
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To: WaterDragon
Was that Algeria, or was it another of the French "former" colonies? Dunno. One of them. Whichever the French sent troops into recently.
106 posted on 05/04/2003 5:34:16 PM PDT by WaterDragon (Only America has the moral authority and the resolve to lead the world in the 21st Century.)
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To: annyokie
Geez! I don't think they're being "sensitive" enough...
107 posted on 05/04/2003 5:35:09 PM PDT by livius (Let slip the cats of conjecture.)
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To: AlbionGirl
A newbie, or a new identity?
108 posted on 05/04/2003 5:35:29 PM PDT by WaterDragon (Only America has the moral authority and the resolve to lead the world in the 21st Century.)
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis
You asked what a "fair fight" is. You necessarily imply that one victory is as good as another; that "a win is a win," if you will. I don't care to argue that point.

But the comment was made in the context of an argument about relative military prowess. The other fellow brought up New Orleans, evidently as an example of a stunning American victory. My point was that we could hardly have lost that battle under the circumstances. The British frontally assaulted a very formidable position without artillery preparation. I don't think one can point to the holding of such a position as an example of exceptional military prowess.

109 posted on 05/04/2003 5:38:36 PM PDT by stinkypew
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To: stinkypew
According to Matthew Cooper, "The German Army, 1933-1945," the Russians killed 214,000 Germans between June and November 1944. In the West, 54,000 Germans were killed. Now that picks up right after D-Day, yet the Russians inflicted 4X the deaths of the U.S. and Brits combined.

How many Germans total were in that theatre? Russians? Over what land area? What ocean did the Russians have to cross to get their troops to the battlefield? What fortifications did they face when they fought these obviously dug in and heavily supplied troops? Oh wait, it was the Americans and Brits fighting dug in, supplied troops while the Russians were fighting overextended troops far from supply.

You're providing excellent apples to oranges comparisons.

110 posted on 05/04/2003 5:39:57 PM PDT by Citizen of the Savage Nation
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To: WaterDragon
I worked with some British RAF in Saudi during Desert Storm and had nothing but the utmost respect for them.

They treated me at least as good as my own troops did and always offered any help they could give - and I did likewise.

My son is (still) in Iraqi Freedom and all the Brits from his area have vacated now for at least two weeks.

He felt the same way I did - "Great Blokes to have around in a pinch!"

I observed the Brits working with the Saudis, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Lebonese, etc. and their "soft-hand" approach really does go over very well in that part of the world.

We could learn a lot from them.

111 posted on 05/04/2003 5:42:28 PM PDT by Happy2BMe (LIBERTY has arrived in Iraq - Now we can concentrate on HOLLYWEED!)
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To: stinkypew
I beg to differ. WE WON Africa. WE Won Italy. WE had 127,000 troops hit the beaches on DDAY. WE had 3,000,000 in England. Monte was in charge at the initial landings. Once the beachhead was secured control was turned over To SHEAF and IKE. Because as Churchill said and Monte could not argue. The Americans are commiting far more manpower and will take far more loses. It is only fitting that they be commanded by Americans. We took France, Belgium. And Germany. We let Russia take Berlin. We were ahead of them, we stopped and waited until the Russians did take Berlin.

It was fitting we felt that Russia be allowed to because of the people they had lost. It was Politics. We sat and waited, and waited. The German feeling at the time was we should move and hurry to get to Berlin first. We decided not to do so. WE destroyed the 15th, the 7th Armies and more. We destroyed PanzerGruppe one after the other.

The only thing Russia has was manpower to use as cannon fodder which Stalin was more than happy to use. And I might add, it was not the communist state for which they fought. Stalin pushed Mother Russia, and put communism in the background. So much for the utopia of a gov. that no one would fight for without being shot.
112 posted on 05/04/2003 5:45:50 PM PDT by Michael121
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To: xJones
I was thinking that, also. The Brits do have the advantage of years of patrolling Northern Ireland.

Yeah, and how universally loved are the Brits there?

113 posted on 05/04/2003 5:46:37 PM PDT by Smedley
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To: Citizen of the Savage Nation
Throughout the period June-November 1944, the Germans had on average about 3/4 of their divisions on the Eastern Front.

I can't believe anyone would seriously argue that the Russians did not carry the brunt of the ground war against the Germans.

You people seem to think that I'm denigrating our military. I'm not. The argument is primarily about British and French military history.

114 posted on 05/04/2003 5:48:21 PM PDT by stinkypew
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To: Michael121
"The only thing the Russians had was manpower."

Jeez. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Russian armor was either the best in the war, or barely second to Germany. Their artillery was good quality as well. They also produced some top quality fighters in the last couple years of the war, as well as a top quality tank-buster.

115 posted on 05/04/2003 5:54:18 PM PDT by stinkypew
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To: WaterDragon
Actually, the article has a point. The US conventional military does indeed keep the troops isolated from, ignorant of, and generally hostile to the population.

We saw it in Afghanistan. Anywhere the conventional forces of the 82nd Airborne went, any rapport we had with the Afghans was totally wiped out. We spent the next couple weeks getting our agents, or the local mayor who was working with us, and people like that out of custody because they were just grabbing people at random.

Young infantrymen, armoured like Star Wars storm troopers, have their time and their place. The reason they are still in Afghanistan is that the generals (1) don't understand unconventional war and (2) fear postwar budget cuts, so they want to keep their best units busy. In fact, when I left, one general was pushing to have Special Forces stop patrolling and lock down in firebases, and only go outside in armour, helmets and armoured vehicles.

Yeah, it's riskier to go out in a T-shirt and a Toyota but the key to this type of war, now that the big battalions are crushed, is to -- as the article says, look 'em in the eye. You need information and in a world where everybody does stuff only with his blood relatives, you have to talk to people and build on your common humanity. They guys who would be taking the risk don't have the problem with it, it's the generals. (Every time we had someone wounded, we had to answer a bunch of insistent questions from not just in-theater generals but stateside ones too. The implication was that it was the wounded guy's fault and he was risking some general's career by being so.. whatever).

That said, while I do agree with the general premise of the article -- you gotta get out and show your face if you want to control the ground -- one thing is kind of a laugh. The author says the Americans have no experience of peacekeeping. I would like to know what the hell we have been doing in the Balkans since 1993 (home by Christmas, the Bent One said) and for that matter in Sinai since seventy-something. (Of course, most of the troops in the Balkans also live in walled fortresses and only go out in full stormtrooper mode, and there ARE no people in the Sinai to interact with).

Anyway, that's my opinion. I think the way the Brits do it (and the way our SF does it, to the extent the overhead permits) is better than the way our conventional forces handle the peacekeeping & post-major-hostilities patrolling, strictly as a matter of professional opinion.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F
116 posted on 05/04/2003 5:56:07 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F
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To: stinkypew
I can't believe anyone would seriously argue that the Russians did not carry the brunt of the ground war against the Germans.

Of course they did. That is because of geography. The Germans had a great many troops right in Russia's doorstep. Russia had millions of troops also. For them to kill a couple hundred thousand is not out of the ordinary when looked in that light. The Allies had a little bit harder time of it to get troops into the field, there was no way they could kill so many Germans as the Russians did because the Germans came to them en masse.

117 posted on 05/04/2003 6:03:17 PM PDT by Citizen of the Savage Nation
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To: WaterDragon
If we see one vehicle heading at speed towards a checkpoint we let it through.

So... is this stupidity, or wimpiness?

118 posted on 05/04/2003 6:08:29 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: WaterDragon
Neither really. I originally signed up in July of '01, and then asked that my account be deleted in August of '02. Then just recently when I went to re-register I did so under my original screen name and I got stuck in a loop. The system wouldn't let me re-register under my original username, so I registered with my current name.

I did send the websmaster a note letting him know all that I've reiterated to you, and asked him/her to let me know how to go about it if they wanted me to go back to using my original screename, but I never heard back, so I kept AlbionGirl.

119 posted on 05/04/2003 6:08:30 PM PDT by AlbionGirl (A kite flies highest against the wind, not with it. - Winston Churchill)
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To: stinkypew
The "Tommy Cooker" or Sherman was a main battle tank that rivaled those of Germany up to the point of Africa. They were mass produced. 50,000 during the war.

We did not encounter Tigers or Panthers until we hit Europe. The new Pershing was a better tank. It could fire while on the move because the gun turrent had gyros. In one filmed battle a King Tiger was at the end of a street the gunner began to turn to fire at a Pershing coming towards them. The German expected the US tank to stop instead the driver hit the gas the gunner fired on the move hitting the Tiger. They fired again. The Tiger burnt for three days.

Our treads lasted 2,500 miles. Germans lasted 500. Russians about 500.

The USSR and its holdover, use numbers to win. They take out a gridsquare with arty we hit targets. They throw men at cannons and tanks we use small forces with support. Russia could not win in Afghanistan in 10 years, with thousand of men. We won in 8 months with 75 SF troops and airpower.
120 posted on 05/04/2003 6:10:08 PM PDT by Michael121
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