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"Unlike the American troops, we look the Iraqis in the eye"
The Daily Telegraph U.K. ^ | 4-05-03 | Not attributed

Posted on 05/04/2003 3:04:58 PM PDT by WaterDragon

He counts his unit's kills meticulously, each one a tick in black pen on his khaki helmet which is, by now, bleached by the sun and battered from battle. Perched in the turret of his tank, just behind the barrel that is hand-painted with intimidating war cries such as "kill 'em all" or "I'm a motherf***ing warrior", he talks only to those Iraqis with the temerity to approach: he feels vulnerable without a 60-ton Abrams girding his loins. It is impossible to read anything in his eyes because they are always obscured by mirrored sunglasses.

Only in the safety of his unit's headquarters, behind barbed wire and protected by heavy weaponry, does the American marine take off his body armour and helmet. On the streets of Baghdad, out on patrol, he is wary and ill at ease.

Friendly approach: an Irish Guard patrols the streets of Basra Every Iraqi is a potential troublemaker, a possible target. If one fails to stop at his checkpoint, his response will be to open fire. If more than 50 gather to chant anti-American slogans, he will likely flood the street with soldiers. If he so much as suspects that the crowd has weapons he may well consider a full-scale counter-attack.

Still in full battle dress, though the war is over, he is awesome to behold. His President insists that he was never a member of an invading force, that he was a liberator and is now a peacekeeper. Yet much of the time he is loathed, despised and spat upon by those Iraqis for whose freedom he fought. He and his comrades are among the most hated men in the Iraqi capital.

The manner in which the American forces stormed their way to Baghdad may indeed have been awesome. They fought the war with verve, with valour and with steely determination. How they are holding the peace, however, makes a woeful contrast.

British troops, by comparison, are welcomed in southern Iraq with cries of "We love you Britannia, welcome British." In the south, the British not only won the trust of the locals during the war and used it effectively to gather vital intelligence, they kept it in the aftermath. The Americans, hampered by much stricter rules of engagement and with little experience of peacekeeping, are swiftly losing the battle for hearts and minds.

On the streets of Basra, Safwan and Az Zubayr in southern Iraq, British soldiers, with years of experience of dealing with civilian populations in war zones such as Northern Ireland and of peacekeeping in the Balkans and Sierra Leone, are treated as saviours. They have abandoned their helmets in favour of their more people-friendly berets, have taken off their body armour and mingle with the locals. They have helped to set up a local police force and a council to get the city's infrastructure running smoothly.

"Have you met my buddy Ahmed?" says Sergeant Euan Andrews, from the 7th Parachute Regiment of the Royal Horse Artillery, as he swings an arm around an Iraqi by his side outside the freshly painted Basra police station.

Ahmed, beaming in a baseball cap emblazoned with the words "City of Basra police" in Arabic and holding a truncheon, punches his new friend in playful camaraderie. "A month ago we were shooting at each other," says Euan, "now we are on the same side."

As Ahmed, chest swelling with pride, steps out to deal with the next car check by himself, Euan gives him an encouraging nod. "They're all getting there," he says. "It will take time. There is still a lot of: 'He is my cousin, my friend, he is ok.' We have had to explain that police must be impartial. But slowly we are getting there."

That afternoon the soldiers are playing football against the locals and in the evening they have volunteered to repaint the local school. The Iraqis loiter to chat as they pass the station, shaking soldiers by the hand and bringing them home-cooked meals. "Our methods of dealing with the locals are very, very different from that of the Yanks," one officer says over a cup of local coffee. ("Awful," he says, "but they like it when we drink it.")

"Unlike the Americans we have taken off our helmets and sunglasses and we look the locals in the eye. If we see one vehicle heading at speed towards a checkpoint we let it through. It is only one vehicle. We call our method "raid and aid" - don't ask me what we call the American way."

In Basra, raid and aid worked. For two weeks the 7th Armoured Brigade waited at the bridge before entering the city. During that time it built up its relationship with those Iraqis brave enough to provide intelligence about the Fedayeen - Saddam's loyalist fighters - who had held the city to ransom.

The result was that when the British did enter, they knew where to go, who to go after and who to trust. For them the rules of engagement changed as warfare became peacekeeping. Now, they no longer automatically return fire. They wait. Often Iraqi gunfire is a sign of celebration at the return of electricity or running water. They know it is not necessarily attacking fire.

The Americans are, admittedly, bound by much less flexible rules. Their Force Protection Doctrine decrees that all soldiers must wear helmets and body armour in a war zone at all times and that gun fire must be met with response. They also have little experience in the peacekeeping arena, and their experience of urban warfare in the battle for Hue during the Vietnam war and more recently in Somalia has left them jumpy.

The British have learned in the past 30 years that good information on the enemy was their best protection and that putting soldiers at risk to get it was justified; jungle ambushes in Vietnam made the Americans obsessed with "force protection".

Since the killing of four American soldiers by an Iraqi suicide bomber 10 days into the conflict, they have become even more wary of locals.

Last week, Americans killed 15 people - among them two young boys - at Fallujah, an impoverished Shia area 30 miles west of Baghdad - when locals became angry at their occupation of the local school. Though the US troops say they fired in self-defence - and may well have done so - television footage of bleeding Iraqis, clearly unarmed, lying on the roads, have shocked Western viewers.

In Baghdad, where the Americans rarely leave their compounds, lawlessness is widespread. On Friday, when locals realised that Saddam's sister owned a lavish home in Al Jadria in the west of the city, they stormed the house. Pianos, furniture and paintings were dragged away by a mob of looters. When US soldiers arrived they stopped only long enough to warn journalists not to remove anything or they would be arrested, then left the mob rampaging through the house. "I'm not going near that lot," one marine said. "I don't feel safe anywhere near them, unless I am behind a whopping big tank."

In the more affluent areas of Al Mansour and Al Kaarada, local families have been forced to build barricades to keep out thieves as the American soldiers refuse to patrol.

In the Shia ghettos of Saddam City and Khadamia, where the Americans are reluctant to go even in tanks, the local imams have taken matters in hand. "Imams have set up local security stations in the hospitals," says Yousef al Alwani. "Guns that have been looted, many from Saddam's palace, are brought to the mosques and from there the imams take them to the hospital and arm the local militia who are now policing us. The Americans don't protect us and they don't help us. What else are they doing but occupying us?"

Cultural background, say military analysts, explains much of the British success in southern Iraq. "Britain and other European nations have imperial traditions," says Stuart Crawford, a retired lieutenant colonel in the 4th Royal Tank Regiment. "As a result, British troops have been inculcated with the ethos and tradition of colonial policing, where small numbers of men would have close contact on a daily basis with local populations. But America is a young country with no colonial past."

In some respects it is a paradox that Britain, which once ruled an empire, should have a more flexible and sensitive army than America.

At the end of the 19th century, the howitzer and the Maxim gun were the equivalent of the cruise missile and the tankbuster. To maintain control yet allow and encourage people to live in their traditional ways, they became accustomed to understanding and respecting local culture and customs. It is a lesson that the American army has yet, it seems, to learn.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: allies; american; antiamerican; boorishness; british; drivel; iraqifreedom; mediabias; order; totalbs; troops
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To: Doe Eyes
As if all of our allies in the UK agree with this newspaper article. I suggest you direct your attack to the Daily Telegraph, not the "Brits".

Well, considering some 70% of the British public opposed the war, perhaps we should reserve our respect for Tony Blair and the more circumspect and tactful members of the British military.

The British love to slag on the U.S. just as much as any other Europeans.

161 posted on 05/04/2003 6:48:51 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis; MadIvan
"You are right and correct about not wanting to be a nit picker. But, as it urinated me, I will do it for you and take on this jerkoff author for this rag. It seems there is always a Bernie Montgomery syndrome exhibited by a jealous SOB hidden somewhere in the Brit mentality. So lets us find some fault with the British commanders and their battle plans, not the excellent British troops

The Americans conquered over 300 miles of hostile country charging forward from their base of operations and supplies. This though weeks of constant up close and personal combat.

Now compare the Brits, they never got out of sight of Kuwait City and their base of operations or supplies. They barely got past the outer city limits of Basra during the same time frame as the Americans conquered the rest of Iraq.

I also remember that "soft and easy" MO of sitting by and letting the Sadamnites slaughter the civilians in Basra with artillery, this while the Brit commanders timidly played whist outside the city without proactively intervening. At the same time the Brit combat troops were raising hell and chomping at the bit to close with the enemy and bring it to a halt.

Fact, Americans took Baghdad in one day, they took the entire country in less time than the Brits got to the city center of Basra. And that they were only able to do with full American fixed and rotor winged airpower."

Too right! Spot on!
162 posted on 05/04/2003 6:49:40 PM PDT by Pukka Puck
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To: FreedomCalls
I like your rewrite, since it reflects reality rather than leftist spin.
163 posted on 05/04/2003 6:52:28 PM PDT by Pukka Puck
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To: FreedomCalls
"The Telegraph, supposedly the most conservative newspaper in Britain"

"Hardly. I think the Sun is considered to be far more politically conservative."

Perhaps, but isn't the Telegraph supposed to be the BEST conservative paper in Britain?
164 posted on 05/04/2003 6:54:26 PM PDT by Pukka Puck
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To: stinkypew
"As to the Russian winter, why didn't it beat the Germans in WWI?"

You don't have a very strong grasp of history, do you? The Russians surrendered to the Germans in World War I on terms very favorable to the Germans. Those terms were rewritten after the Allies eventually defeated the Germans.
165 posted on 05/04/2003 6:57:55 PM PDT by Pukka Puck
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To: AlbionGirl
Same thing happened to me but a few years before. I did get my old screen name back. The site has grown so fast, it's a wonder they keep up with us at all. LOL
166 posted on 05/04/2003 7:01:19 PM PDT by WaterDragon (Only America has the moral authority and the resolve to lead the world in the 21st Century.)
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To: Pukka Puck
They are all a bunch of socialists over there now?

Care to tell me what you know of the recent local elections, and the Torie gains?


167 posted on 05/04/2003 7:02:48 PM PDT by Happygal
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Comment #168 Removed by Moderator

To: Pukka Puck
pukka

with respect a few facts.

The uk commanders were under US orders, not an opinion just a simple fact. Even when they bombed chemical ali they had to ask permission from centcom.

Yes the uk took the south, the US logistics is better, however
facts are the initial assault (including the tricky job of taking the oilfields without them being destroyed). Was led by royal marines and a small contingent of navy seals. Amongst the towns taken was one of 140k population, and a near city of 320k population which was a military strongpoint.

Another fact, the US supply lines were attacked early on the 16th air assault brigade was deployed to secure them. They also patrolled the borders when actions from neighbours seemed likely.

So a summary

with 25k soldiers available, the uk took large tracts of the south, secured borders and supply lines, and took basra.

Personally i consider that a signifigant contribution wih limited manpower.

Now, you are free to critisise based on newspaper articles, however your feelings are not shared by your men on the ground, just about every account from english and american soldiers that have worked together is mutual respect.

169 posted on 05/04/2003 7:03:15 PM PDT by may18
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To: anniegetyourgun
It's a benevolent-master role that the English have cultivated through the centuries.

What, our military can't learn from other countries military's? Let's not get arrogant here. Assuming the article is even possibly true, even accounting for the difference in location of the Brits and Americans, if they do a better job of peacekeeping after the war, then we should learn what it is they do and incorporate it into our efforts.
170 posted on 05/04/2003 7:03:42 PM PDT by jwh_Denver
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To: Joseph_CutlerUSA
It was the IIIJ. I just re-read it.
171 posted on 05/04/2003 7:07:01 PM PDT by stinkypew
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Comment #172 Removed by Moderator

To: Trailerpark Badass
The British love to slag on the U.S. just as much as any other Europeans.

Eh...and the American posters on this board slag Europeans. Isn't 'euroweenie' the popular phrase?

Does anyone else around here see a childish playground fight emerging?

Guess, George W. Bush didn't want the Brits and the Spanish as Allies in the War on Iraq afterall. Geez, ye think Dubya might have told them before they deployed troops, eh?

173 posted on 05/04/2003 7:07:29 PM PDT by Happygal
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To: may18; MadIvan
The British are true friends, and beyond valiant, as I believe the recent war has illustrated. I think that this discussion has moved far beyond the original intent of the article, which was to discuss the differences of the American and British troops' strategies in Iraq.

I certainly did not agree with everything that the journalist wrote reguarding our fine Marines, but I don't hold the entire British population responsible becuase one journalist rightfully bragged about the superiority of British peacekeeping techniques. So he/she doesn't like Marines, that's perfectly alright. We weren't there to be liked, and obviously we're not basing our foreign policy on likeability. On the other hand, it's wonderful to have good friends who know how to be likeable.

You are likeable, you bunch of Brits. I like you. Let's be friends, just please don't let your SAS come after me - unless they're in uniform, then that would be fun. (I'm a girl, I can say mushy touchy-feely stuff like that.)

174 posted on 05/04/2003 7:07:48 PM PDT by dandelion
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To: may18
The article was posted not as an attack on the British army, but on a newspaper that presents itself as conservative but repeatedly prints attacks on the American troops. No American newspaper has printed such drivel about the British troops. Class shows, doesn't it?
175 posted on 05/04/2003 7:08:14 PM PDT by WaterDragon (Only America has the moral authority and the resolve to lead the world in the 21st Century.)
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To: may18
Bravo! And well said!
176 posted on 05/04/2003 7:09:06 PM PDT by Happygal
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis
"Battle Of New Orleans"

I was just over to Chalmette, LA where that battle took place and read the historical marker that marks the spot. There is a large Exxon/Mobil refinery across the street from the battle site that I visit for business reasons.
177 posted on 05/04/2003 7:10:33 PM PDT by Pukka Puck
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To: may18
Repeat: the article was posted to expose idiocies of a supposedly conservative newspaper, not an attack on the British troops.

And it isn't "just one article", this is the latest in a series of similar articles trashing American troops. The Brits on this forum have tended to see these articles as just showing pride in their troops. American newspapers have not seemed to need to trash British troops in order to express pride in our own.
178 posted on 05/04/2003 7:12:17 PM PDT by WaterDragon (Only America has the moral authority and the resolve to lead the world in the 21st Century.)
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To: Pukka Puck
Perhaps, but isn't the Telegraph supposed to be the BEST conservative paper in Britain?

The Sun is a 'tits and ass' tabloid, that sells a conservative agenda. It's like comparing the Weekly World News to the Washington Post.

Pukka..do you have ANY concept of newspaper sales?

179 posted on 05/04/2003 7:13:07 PM PDT by Happygal
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
Perhaps I missed them, but I've seen no articles in American newspapers offering anything but praise for the British troops. I've seen no articles quoting American troops offering other than appreciation for British participation in the war.

I haven't either, and I'm glad of that. It is as it should be.

Unfortunately, you can't count on everyone to have class.

Yes, too bad the British press has no class.
180 posted on 05/04/2003 7:13:14 PM PDT by Pukka Puck
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