Customer In Bar Charged With Shooting Would-Be Robber

channelcincinnati.com ^ | 5/9/2003 | Unknown

[day10]

CINCINNATI -- Two young men allegedly tried to rob a bar late Thursday, but the attempt ended when one of the bar's customers shot one of the robbers, according to police.

The shooting happened just after 11 p.m. at Junkers Tavern on Langland Avenue in Northside, WLWT Eyewitness News 5 reported.

[WhiskeyPapa]

McKinney, who is a member of the Northside Citizens On Patrol, is charged with having a weapon inside a liquor establishment and felonious assault.

That's better than being taken in the back and executed.

Walt

[Zavien Doombringer]

Person is charged with two counts of aggravated robbery, and Hester is charged with one count of aggravated robbery.

They aren't being charged with having a gun in a liquor establishment? How biased!

[steveegg]

I wonder what carries a bigger penalty; aggravated robbery or having a gun in a liquor establishment?

[Eric in the Ozarks]

If I were the judge, I'd find him guilty and fine him $.05, plus a moderate scolding.

[pgyanke]

We need to get back to the causes for these things. Don't charge those who foil crimes... charge those who sought to commit the crime in the first place. Without the latter, there wouldn't have to be the former. Given the fact that the citizen did violate the law on where he could carry his firearm, cite him for that. Don't, however, cite him for protecting himself from people who threatened to do violence.

This article also points out the fallacy of "places where guns aren't allowed." These would-be robbers probably chose this place because guns aren't allowed on premises. Notice how the second robber hid in the back... they are cowards and went where they thought their victims would be unarmed. When confronted, they scurry into the dark like the vermin they are.

[SJSAMPLE]

Then the old boy would have a felony conviction and wouldn't be able to TOUCH a firearm, ever again. The DA needs to feel some heat from the community on this one.

[TommyDale]

I wish I was on jury duty in Cincinnati...

[WhiskeyPapa]

If I were the judge, I'd find him guilty and fine him $.05, plus a moderate scolding.

I'd double that fine. Discharging a firearm within city limits is very serious.

Walt

[Just another Joe]

CCW needs to implemented everywhere.
An armed society is a polite society.

[The Other Harry]

McKinney, who is a member of the Northside Citizens On Patrol, is charged with having a weapon inside a liquor establishment and felonious assault.

I think the first count would be sufficient. Sentence suspended.

[Sacajaweau]

I think they should thank Harold. Those creeps might have shot the woman before they left. It didn't say they were masked.

[from occupied ga]

felonious assault.

What in Georgia would be considered self-defense is considered felonious assault in OH. Self defense is a much more serious crime than robbery in the eyes of the government. After all if you are willing and able to defend yourself against unorganized robbery. You might (horrors) do the same against the organized crime syndicate called "government."

[The Other Harry]

I think they should thank Harold. Those creeps might have shot the woman before they left. It didn't say they were masked.

Harold is evidently a pretty good shot. I'd like to see an instant replay of that little incident. Then I'd like to see it again.

Charging him with "felonious assault" for what he did strikes me as... inappropriate. Giving him a medal would be more like it.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Suspended sentence ?
Perhaps the police would see fit to award him a medal...

[Gritty]

Person is charged with two counts of aggravated robbery, and Hester is charged with one count of aggravated robbery.

McKinney, who is a member of the Northside Citizens On Patrol, is charged with having a weapon inside a liquor establishment and felonious assault.

Lemme get this straight.

The guys who assaulted the place with drawn guns while committing a robbery get off on "aggravated robbery" charges only?

Then, the guy who stops their crime gets "weapons" and "felonious assault" charges, both?

Any guess who will do the most time if convicted?

What is wrong with this picture? Nay,... what is right with this picture!!??

[Protagoras]

and felonious assault.

Amazing charge. He assaulted a robber in the middle of an armed robbery. These people have lost their minds.

[from occupied ga]

Perhaps the police would see fit to award him a medal...

Police generally don't like to see people defend themselves successfully. It shows that you don't need as many of them.

[FourPeas]

McKinney, who is a member of the Northside Citizens On Patrol, is charged with having a weapon inside a liquor establishment and felonious assault.

I have no idea whether the punks in this story realized it, but since having a weapon inside a liquor establishment in Ohio is against the law, a liquor establishment in Ohio is the perfect place to rob, as well as a church, library, school or liquor establishment in Michigan because law abiding citizens won't carry here. It's amazing just how dangerous these "safe zones" can be.

[The Other Harry]

The guys who assaulted the place with drawn guns while committing a robbery get off on "aggravated robbery" charges only?

Well, not exactly.

One of them also gets off with a gunshot wound to the head (which will hopefully prove to be fatal). That would be thanks to Harold, who can apparently still draw and shoot straight after having a drink or two.

Harold is okay. I'd have a drink with him anytime, anywhere. Those SOB's ought to make him the Chief of Police. He gets the job done.

[wardaddy]

Very good Walt.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Amazing charge. He assaulted a robber in the middle of an armed robbery. These people have lost their minds.

Anybody from Ohio/Cincinnati? What is likely to happend to the armed citizen?

Suspended sentence, fine, or what?

Walt

[Protagoras]

I don't have any knowledge of Ohio laws. But they are goofy everywhere. The frog is cooking.

[WhiskeyPapa]

I don't have any knowledge of Ohio laws. But they are goofy everywhere. The frog is cooking.

I think here in Georgia, or Tennessee or Alabama, at least -- the armed citizen would not be charged, or would not face anything serious, even a fine.

Juries down here won't convict.

Walt

[BossLady]

"Person pointed a gun at a 68-year-old woman who was tending bar"

There's so much wrong with this piece of information. No wonder the guy shot the kid....

[Protagoras]

Juries down here won't convict.

Careful, you will be labeled as a whacko on this forum if you suggest that jury nullification has any place in our "civilization".

[Protagoras]

In Chicago a few years back, an off duty cop sitting at the bar calmly plugged a stick up guy trying to rob the bar. He was disciplined for having his piece on him in the bar. At least they didn't fire him.

[WhiskeyPapa]

In Chicago a few years back, an off duty cop sitting at the bar calmly plugged a stick up guy trying to rob the bar. He was disciplined for having his piece on him in the bar. At least they didn't fire him.

In Nashville @ 13-14 years ago an off duty cop was in a restaurant when it was robbed. He sneaked out the back and confronted FOUR perps as they exited. He dropped them all. But -- he was carrying a pistol he had not qualified with on the range. He was disciplined on that basis, but I don't recall it as being a big deal.

Walt

[Hal.009]

Everyone, Thanks for the kind words and the support of all the Freepers.

I was just released on bond ( after three days) and await the findings of a grand jury on May 19, 2003. The Grand Jury will then decide to either press for a indictment, reduce the charges or dismiss the the charges at that time

I have had numerous offers for legal assistance and huge support from the Community here in Cincinnati.

Also for the record, the Cincinnati Police officers and the Hamilton County Deputies are some of the finest people I have had the privilidge to know. They gave me support and assistance above and beyond the call of duty.

Incidentally, the robbers threatned everyone in the bar not just the barmaid. I fired only after the robber held a gun to another patrons head and stated "I'm going to blow your f**kin brains out!"

Evil prospers when good men do nothing!

)PS, Should anyone wish to freep the news media (the Cincinnati Enquirer) with a deluge of email supporting a Freeper........

[Jeff Head]

God bless you brother for your actions in those mortal moments that stopped those animals and prevented a far worse result of their crimes.

And God keep you and yours in the fight against the PC left and those who have been propagandized into believing and accepting their world view.

You are a hero, and hopefully this case will be dropped and you will be recognized as such there in Cincinnati. Would to God that there were ten million more like you, who recognize their responsibilities as citizens, take them seriously, and then act when such unfortunate and mortal circumstances arise.

Jeff

[Joe Brower]

Support fellow FReeper hal/009 in beating this bum rap!

[stainlessbanner]

You did the right thing, sir. Stand strong.

[Joe Brower]

Whups!

"hal/009" = Hal.009

[Blood of Tyrants]

Isn't pointing a gun and threatening someone also felonious assault?

[Tijeras_Slim]

Thanks for the ping Joe.
Bumping for justice for our FReeper brother.

[Shooter 2.5]

BTT

[Cap'n Crunch]

I'd like to echo the sentiments of: You did the right thing sir and stand strong. I'm glad you were there to do what you did and that you or any innocents were not injured.

My prayers for your peace of mind and a quick end to the legal games that are sure to follow.

[Labyrinthos]

Amazing charge. He assaulted a robber in the middle of an armed robbery. These people have lost their minds.

Does anyone have a link to the actual provision of the Ohio Penal Code that defines "feloneous assault." What would the guy have been charged with if he had tip toed up behind the perps and cracked them over the head with a bottle of Johnny Walker Red?

[Living Stone]

You are absolutely correct that evil prospers when good men do nothing.

It is a crying shame that you are being prosecuted/persecuted for what you did, instead of being awarded the medal you deserve.

I wish you luck in the days to come, and will pray over this thing.

[Joe Hadenuf]

They arrest and cage the hero? The throw the man in jail that stopped a major crime and possibly saved innocent people from being murdered? When he should have been given a key to the city.

This is a government/judicial system gone mad, it's completely out of control.

[arthurus]

If I were the judge, I'd find him guilty and fine him $.05, plus a moderate scolding

Finding him guilty takes away his right to possess a gun and chips away at Bar employees' protection.

[TEXASPROUD]

HAL,
You make us proud to be Freepers. Thank you for coming to the assistance of your fellow citizens. Wishing you the best with the Grand Jury.

[Gritty]

Great work!

You did what had to be done, and did it well. You probably saved some lives!

[Joe Hadenuf]

I think they should thank Harold. Those creeps might have shot the woman before they left. It didn't say they were masked.

If it were not for this hero, these two criminals could have gone on to commit hundreds of other crimes and a path of victims in their wake.

This is truly a judicial system that is not the friend of the law abiding citizens.

[Joe Hadenuf]

You have my support. You are a hero.

[Joe Hadenuf]

I may have missed it, but has anyone pulled their criminal record? Curious what kind of history and how many outstandings these criminal have?

[JimRed]

What would the guy have been charged with if he had tip toed up behind the perps and cracked them over the head with a bottle of Johnny Walker Red?

Improper use of decent blended Scots Whisky. Better to use a one liter Galliano bottle; it's the size and shape of a small baseball bat, and probably won't break!

[arthurus]

After all if you are willing and able to defend yourself against unorganized robbery. You might (horrors) do the same against the organized crime syndicate called "government"

It seems to be a bit more complicated than that. I have had RKBA discussions with liberals numerous times and the more committed theoretical ones consider self defense a crime where murder/robbery are signs of psychological disturbance and should not be punishable.

Self defense is a crime because it is a rational act by a rational person to harm another person. That makes it Murder. Actual murder and robbery are antisocial acts by nonsocialized persons who are obviously thereby mentally ill and in need of treatment for their condition. The self-defender should go to prison and the robber/killer should go to a government hospital.

[E Rocc]

I don't have any knowledge of Ohio laws.

Only cops are allowed to carry concealed weapons in Ohio. It's particularly illegal in a liquor establishment. The laws are in flux because a state(?) court ruled that Ohio's concealed carry laws violate the Constitution. The liquor establishment ban may not be under question though. I think that's a separate law. Since I work part time as a bouncer, I have mixed feelings about it, though I'm very much pro-CC otherwise.

There was a case a few years ago that was amusing. A couple of freelance socialists decided to rob a bar, and it was a police hangout. They instantly faced more steel than an ISG furnace tender. One of them decided to play, and got ventilated. The other got charged with his murder, since he was committing a felony and someone got killed.

I doubt Hal will be charged with assault since it was clearly self defense, but the gun-in-a-bar charge may be a real problem.

-Eric

[FreedomPoster]

>>Harold is okay. I'd have a drink with him anytime, anywhere.

If he ends up at the same bar with me, I'm buying.