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SCOTUS strikes down Texas sodomy ban
FOXnews

Posted on 06/26/2003 7:08:23 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo

SCOTUS sided with the perverts.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
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To: OWK
Those lacking such faculties (children,

Um wrong, many children and as early as age 9-10 have the mental capacity to consent. Only arbitrary law with the redundant term “consensual adult” prevents their capacity to consent. Legal capacity to consent is measured by an IQ of 70-75 or above in every state and many many children have that capacity whether you admit it or not.

Each individual adult human being (which meets the aforementioned criteria) acts in accordance with his own values, as he defines them.

Except when it come to the children mentioned above, ones personal property AKA animals or consenting relatives that meet the same criteria above that would make you a hypocrite.

ONLY in a political system in which each abstains from initiated force and fraud, is each man otherwise free to act in accordance with his will.

Ah Yes, the big Liberaltarian experiment, society and culture be damned.

1,051 posted on 06/26/2003 12:56:09 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: Antoninus
What are you kidding? It was pure anarchy ... which is where we'd end up if (God forbid) libertine-arianism ever became the ruling ideology. Bank on it.

"The voluntary support of laws, formed by persons of their own choice, distinguishes peculiarly the minds capable of self-government. The contrary spirit is anarchy, which of necessity produces despotism." --Thomas Jefferson

1,052 posted on 06/26/2003 12:56:23 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Dead Corpse
Try listening to the New Kids on the Block Christmas album for the entire drive from the Bay Area to LA due to a spoiled little sister. I am forever jaded about the Holidays.
1,053 posted on 06/26/2003 12:56:25 PM PDT by Grando Calrissian
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To: MineralMan
Since I am against the Homosexual Agenda I do see it creeping in as today's SCOTUS reflects.

Do you know that in the San Francisco Unified School District it's IMPERITIVE to teach that homosexuality is normal?

How about dildo class taught to your 12 year old middle schooler? This really was taught to kids here in SFUSD - a LIBERAL FATHER had to go court to get parents to APPROVE of that.

How about $7 million dollars from the STATE (your tax dollars) to a gay/lesbian/transgender building in your city?

How about billboards with gay sex on them that say Stop Aids where anyone, kids, seniors, anyone can see?

Is that good enough?

How about when the police try to arrest gays for public sex they are labeled homophobic and the case is thrown out so that the police don't bother?

That good enough for you?

You think I'm obsessed? This is every day life for me.
1,054 posted on 06/26/2003 12:56:57 PM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: Antoninus
Re: The French Rev.

"It was pure anarchy ..."

That's right. It wasn't driven by libertarian ideas though.

1,055 posted on 06/26/2003 12:57:31 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: MineralMan
But, hey, go for it.

Well, first, I think that I could take about 45% of the population of the U.S. with me (the percent that thinks homosexuality should be illegal), probably more since abortion and other things would be illegal there.

So, you're ok with this?

1,056 posted on 06/26/2003 12:57:31 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae (Catholic Epimethean)
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To: ffusco
let the pendulum go too far and it will correct itself in good time.



And pray tell, do you have children with which to stake this little experiment on?
1,057 posted on 06/26/2003 12:57:51 PM PDT by glory
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
We're not gay , but we're willing to learn! - Stripes
1,058 posted on 06/26/2003 12:58:23 PM PDT by ffusco
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To: Antoninus
Thank you. You are 100% correct.
1,059 posted on 06/26/2003 12:58:27 PM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: All
good grief, I'm only reading the first few posts of this thread(stopped reading this am, came back..argh).
I'll have to catch it sometime later--going to the homeschool conventions curriculum portion tonight. Have a good evening.
1,060 posted on 06/26/2003 12:59:39 PM PDT by glory
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To: Grando Calrissian
"Agreed. Doesn't the old testament also contain a lot of human sacrifice?
"

You bet, although that was against Mosaic law. But looting and pillaging and slaying every man, woman, and child in a city was OK. The soldiers got to keep the virgins, though, for themselves.

Now, animal sacrifice, polygamy, and that sort of thing was quite standard. The OT kings did all kinds of wierd stuff, like having their generals killed so they could sleep with the general's wife. Stuff like that.

It was a pretty lively time back in the Old Testament days, and all under the watchful eye of JHVH himself. He seemed to enjoy all that stuff. Things toned down later, though, once JHVH killed off the whole population of the planet and started over with Noah and his kin, apparently. I guess he got mellow with age.
1,061 posted on 06/26/2003 12:59:47 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: dead
I've never before heard anybody assert their religion has a monopoly on charitable expression.

Christians more or less invented the idea of large-scale charity. Sure, other people are charitable, to be sure. But if we're talking America here, the most consistently charitable people are devout Christians.

1,062 posted on 06/26/2003 12:59:50 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae (Catholic Epimethean)
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To: OWK
What are rights? What do they include? What are their limitations?

Everything you want minus constitution especially the 10th amendment.

By what yardstick do we differentiate "right" from "non-right"?

The constitution.

I don't understand why no one is willing to take a cut at it.

Consider it cracked.

1,063 posted on 06/26/2003 1:00:10 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: puroresu
Truer words were never spoken. Their attitude is: "As long as I get my "kicks", who cares if America is turned into a pestilential hellhole?"
1,064 posted on 06/26/2003 1:00:12 PM PDT by EagleMamaMT
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To: OWK
Had people like yourself not first conspired to criminalize the private sexual behavior of censenting adults to begin with, the Supreme Court would not have been addressing the issue today. But I rather suspect that you still would.

Yeah, people like me and that horrible busy-body Tom Jefferson that you libertine-arians are always popping off about.

Funny, it took the Supreme Court 200-odd years to get around to fixing the problem. Have we been living under tyranny that long?
1,065 posted on 06/26/2003 1:00:44 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: OWK; I_Love_My_Husband
"The "born on" date check.

The last refuge of the beaten."

Comes right after calling everybody who disagrees a homo.
1,066 posted on 06/26/2003 1:02:08 PM PDT by kegler4
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To: LanPB01
...a homosexual behind every tree.

Remind me not to go to that park for a picnic.

But seriously...

Heh, heh, heh... he said "but"...

But seriously, seriously...

I'm torn on the larger issue at hand: Should the US Supreme Court be telling the states how to run their affairs? On the one hand, I like the reservation of powers and rights embodied in the 9th and 10th Amendments. Governance in the US was intended to be from the bottom up; not the top down. On the other hand, I don't want things like gun laws written by the loons in Sacramento. In that case, I'd like nothing more than to see SCOTUS use the 14th Amendment to ram the 2nd down their throats.

And on a side note, I wonder how many of those criticizing the "right to privacy" on this thread squealed like stuck pigs with the Clintonistas tried to force that "know your customer" crap onto the banking industry. And how many have expressed concerns about the potential for snooping in the "Patriot Act"?

1,067 posted on 06/26/2003 1:03:00 PM PDT by Redcloak (All work and no FReep makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no FReep make s Jack a dul boy. Allwork an)
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To: Grando Calrissian
"Try listening to the New Kids on the Block Christmas album..."

You win. Hands down. No contest.

1,068 posted on 06/26/2003 1:03:10 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: Kevin Curry
Libertarians are cheering.

You should be cheering, Kevin. THE SAME POWER that SCOTUS uses to strike down state Med MJ laws, that you cheer so loudly, is the power invoked here. Pisses you off when it is your ox, though.

1,069 posted on 06/26/2003 1:03:37 PM PDT by MileHi
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To: Antoninus
First of all, it's insulting that you consider people who voluntarily and habitually put their penises in other people's anuses the moral equivalent of blacks, Indians, Catholics, Jews, or the disabled.

So I suppose you'd advocate just rounding up all the gays and gassing them? Look at your words. You're talking like a Nazi.

1,070 posted on 06/26/2003 1:03:53 PM PDT by CholeraJoe (White Devils for Sharpton. We're bad. We're Nationwide)
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To: Thane_Banquo
. The 10th amendment guarantees to the states and the people themselves all powers not granted to the federal government.
The Constitution does not give the power to the federal government to regulate in this area.
-TB-


Wrong. The 14th protects our rights to life, liberty, and property from violations by ANY level of government, fed/state/local.

1,071 posted on 06/26/2003 1:04:32 PM PDT by tpaine (Really, I'm trying to be a 'decent human being', but me flesh is weak.)
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To: jimt
What part of ...are reserved to the states respectively... do you NOT understand?

OR

What part of "to the people" do you not understand?

There is a big OR in there!!


Logic, please!!!
1,072 posted on 06/26/2003 1:06:51 PM PDT by Elsie (Any misspellings are caused by a sticky keyboard!! [that darn ol' Coke!])
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
"You think I'm obsessed? This is every day life for me."

I've been to San Francisco many, many times. I don't live that far away. I don't pay any attention to the homosexual stuff there. I have other things to do. I attend plays, eat at the many fine restaurants in the city, visit museums, go to conventions.

I guess, maybe, you are a bit obsessed with homosexuality. I just ignore it, since it's of no importance to me. The city has lots of stuff that's really positive, and aside from New York, it's my favorite city.

Maybe you should get out more to see the other things going on there. Lots to discover, if you can let go of your obsession with homosexuality.

Sometimes, living in a city blinds you to its attractions. Go ride the cable car, have lunch at Fisherman's wharf, then wander around Chinatown for a couple of hours. Eat a steamed pork bun or something. Go visit the Academy of Science. See a play. Go to the symphony. Shoot, you could do new things every day and never deal with homosexuality at all.

Ignore the billboards, like everyone else does. I don't look at the Calvin Klein billboards, either, even if they have cute young women on them. They're boring.

In short, get yourself a life and rediscover your wonderful city.
1,073 posted on 06/26/2003 1:07:22 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: glory
I think we were following the same line of thought that I was trying to take
1,074 posted on 06/26/2003 1:08:30 PM PDT by vin-one (I wish i had something clever to put in this tag)
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To: jimt
If there's no limit on state FEDERAL power we live in a tyranny, albeit a little NO closer than D.C. the Federal building in YOUR neighborhood.
1,075 posted on 06/26/2003 1:08:38 PM PDT by Elsie (Any misspellings are caused by a sticky keyboard!! [that darn ol' Coke!])
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To: Antoninus
"Yeah, Scalia and that tyrant Thomas Jefferson who had the unmittigated GALL to sign a bill into law punishing sodomy with castration."

I admire Thomas Jefferson greatly, but in this case I think it's safe to say he was a crackpot. Did said bill include hetero sodomy, as does the law in my state?
1,076 posted on 06/26/2003 1:09:13 PM PDT by kegler4
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To: HumanaeVitae
But what if I want to form my own society?

Have at it.

What if I don't want to be affected by people who engage in anti-social behaviors whatsoever?

Avoid yourself at all costs.;^]

You see, as hard as you try, I'm still going to have to pick up the costs for anti-social behaviors in some way.

Not unless you subscribe to the same old socialist crap running rampant in the United States today. It is the argument over the distribution of socialist goodies that drives most of the dissent.

As long as I'm sharing a society with perverts, they're going to affect me in some way.

And as long as they have to share it with you, you'll effect them in some way. And neither of you consider the other's influence beneficial. But so long as neither of you violate the rights of the other by initiating force or fraud, you are both otherwise free to act as you please, and ignore the other to your heart's content.

Don't I have a 'right' to live the way I wish, around the people I wish to live around? Isn't this the essence of libertarianism?

You have the right to choose your own associations. You have the right to purchase property with like-minded others. You have the right to include or exclude anyone you wish.

What you do NOT have the right to do, is mandate or prohibit the otherwise peaceful behavior of your unwilling neighbors by force.

Again, I can't make it any clearer than that.

1,077 posted on 06/26/2003 1:09:18 PM PDT by OWK
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To: glory
You worry about your kids. I'll worry about mine.
1,078 posted on 06/26/2003 1:09:21 PM PDT by ffusco
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To: HumanaeVitae
"Well, first, I think that I could take about 45% of the population of the U.S. with me (the percent that thinks homosexuality should be illegal), probably more since abortion and other things would be illegal there. "

It's OK with me if you withdraw from society. No skin off my butt. The Amish have managed it, and there are monasteries and convents scattered all over the country. You're welcome to isolate yourself and to convince others to do the same.

But...you're not welcome to my property. I won't sell it to you, so you'll have to find somewhere of your own. Good riddance, I say.
1,079 posted on 06/26/2003 1:09:29 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: HumanaeVitae
I'm still going to have to pick up the costs for anti-social behaviors in some way. We'll vote in the same elections, pay the same taxes, and so on.

In the absence of socialist entitlements (mainly health care) and in the presence of true free association, in exactly what way do you have to pick up costs?

It seems your real problem is socialism, and not the private behavior of others. Why don't you focus on the former, instead of doing socialists most insidious work of regulating everyone's life down to the smallest details?

1,080 posted on 06/26/2003 1:09:50 PM PDT by freeeee
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To: MineralMan
What city do you live in?
1,081 posted on 06/26/2003 1:10:00 PM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: Thane_Banquo
now you're just being silly.

please tell me what part of the moral code I have violated by driving 30 mph in a 25mph zone. unless you argue the absurd point that if it is a law that is what makes it a moral issue. Which, as any good freeper will tell you, is absolutely circular (hence, faulty) logic.

1,082 posted on 06/26/2003 1:11:56 PM PDT by dmz
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To: teech
You managed to get the consent of the spouse of the person you suborned to break their marital vows?! DANG -- that's some smooth work there!
They don't call me 'charming' for nuttin'!!
(actually, there ARE spouses that consent to this; as long as they can watch!)
1,083 posted on 06/26/2003 1:12:51 PM PDT by Elsie (Any misspellings are caused by a sticky keyboard!! [that darn ol' Coke!])
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To: Antoninus
Yeah, people like me and that horrible busy-body Tom Jefferson..

1)The only words Jefferson EVER penned on the subject, came as a function of his responsibilities as committee recording secretary in the Virginia House of Burgesses. They were not his words, but those of the committee. (which are of course often misattributed to him by those seeking to justify invasion of the bedrooms of their countrymen)

2) Jefferson was often quite the hypocrite. (he owned people for example)

1,084 posted on 06/26/2003 1:13:16 PM PDT by OWK
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To: OWK
1) Libertarianism is not anarchy.

Perhaps not in and of itself... however....

2) The French Revolution begat authoritarian government, not anarchy.

No, the French Revolution begat anarchy which in turn led to authoritarianism. Do you honestly think a libertine-arian regime in this country would not beget similar authoritarianism? I guarantee you it would.

The only hope for free republics is for the citizens to self-regulate their behavior. That's why freedom worked in this country for so long. Since the 1960s, we've given up this part of our patrimony in exchange for the quick fix, fun times, and dare I say, a "right to anal sex." This has made us weak to the point where the federal and state governments routinely tread on our God-given rights. We've effectively traded our rights to free-association, free speech, keep and bear arms, freedom of religion, etc. for pornography, gambling, and gay sex.

If this trend continues, there will come a time when people will say "Enough!" and there will be an authoritarian crack-down. If you don't believe me, try reading some history. I know this much: If we can't have a constitutional republic as envisioned by our Founding Fathers, I prefer a benign dictatorship to the glittering anarchy posing as "freedom" offered by libertine-arianism.
1,085 posted on 06/26/2003 1:14:14 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: HumanaeVitae
"What if I don't want to be affected by people who engage in anti-social behaviors whatsoever? You see, as hard as you try, I'm still going to have to pick up the costs for anti-social behaviors in some way."

So is your answer to ban these behaviors? If we're focusing on "anti-social" behaviors that cost us money as a society, do we then ban excessive drinking, eating large amounts of fat and cholesterol, smoking, and on and on?
1,086 posted on 06/26/2003 1:14:18 PM PDT by kegler4
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
"What city do you live in?"

I don't live in a city. I live in an unincorporated area somewhere south of you. I also don't reveal personal information on Free Republic. Suffice it to say that if I have a hankering for really fine Chinese food for dinner, it's within range for me to have some in San Francisco.

Trust me, I'm very familiar with the city.
1,087 posted on 06/26/2003 1:14:49 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan
"In short, get yourself a life and rediscover your wonderful city. "
(As told to Lot, just before the rains came. His sons-in-law thought they were joking........)
1,088 posted on 06/26/2003 1:15:15 PM PDT by Elsie (Any misspellings are caused by a sticky keyboard!! [that darn ol' Coke!])
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To: dmz
Well, perhaps saying all laws are moral is a bit hyperbolic, but criminal laws certainly are based on moral views of behavior. Murder is illegal because we believe it is immoral for a person to rob another of his life. Indeed, our view of the right to life is inherently moral, as are all other views on rights.
1,089 posted on 06/26/2003 1:15:18 PM PDT by Thane_Banquo
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To: Elsie
""In short, get yourself a life and rediscover your wonderful city. "




(As told to Lot, just before the rains came. His sons-in-law thought they were joking........)
"

Is that the same Lot who, later, had sex with his daughters? Oh well.
1,090 posted on 06/26/2003 1:16:17 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: OWK
What you do NOT have the right to do, is mandate or prohibit the otherwise peaceful behavior of your unwilling neighbors by force.

That would be the 10th amendment.

1,091 posted on 06/26/2003 1:16:21 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: tpaine
The 14th amendment does not define those rights, but references them to be part of the rights of individuals protected from federal government action by the other portions of the Constitution. The Constitution does not state that one has a right to engage in homosexual sex.
1,092 posted on 06/26/2003 1:16:41 PM PDT by Thane_Banquo
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To: Thane_Banquo
"The Constitution does not state that one has a right to engage in homosexual sex."

Nor does it state that one has a right to heterosexual sex, either. The constitution is pretty silent on sexual activity.
1,093 posted on 06/26/2003 1:17:25 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan
Noah and his kin

Well, he didn't mellow out right away...

Noah was the first tiller of the soil. He planted a vineyard; and he drank of the wine, and became drunk, and lay uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. Then Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it upon both their shoulders, and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father; their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father's nakedness. When Nah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had don to him, he said,
Cursed be Canaan;
a slave of slaves shall he be to his brothers."

GEN 8:20-25

1,094 posted on 06/26/2003 1:17:30 PM PDT by huck von finn
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To: vin-one
It can and should however regulate criminal acts

How do we define what is a criminal act except by our moral perception of it? We define murder as criminal because of our moral perception of a right to life. We define stealing as criminal because of our moral perception of a right to property. Etc.

1,095 posted on 06/26/2003 1:18:43 PM PDT by Thane_Banquo
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To: af_vet_rr
I'd also point out that if there is a right to privacy, how can the government institute am progressive income tax based on how much money I make. Isn't my income a private matter?
1,096 posted on 06/26/2003 1:19:46 PM PDT by Thane_Banquo
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To: CholeraJoe
So I suppose you'd advocate just rounding up all the gays and gassing them? Look at your words. You're talking like a Nazi.

Tweeeeeet! Flag on the play. Comparing your opponent to the Nazis. 15 yards and loss of argument.

Seriously, though, you should try doing a Google search for Ernst Roehm and homosexual.
1,097 posted on 06/26/2003 1:19:54 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: kegler4
I admire Thomas Jefferson greatly, but in this case I think it's safe to say he was a crackpot.

Game, set, match. Thank you for playing!
1,098 posted on 06/26/2003 1:21:07 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: Clint N. Suhks
What you do NOT have the right to do, is mandate or prohibit the otherwise peaceful behavior of your unwilling neighbors by force.

That would be the 10th amendment.

The subjugation of rights is no more morally justifiable at the state or local level, than at the federal level.

1,099 posted on 06/26/2003 1:21:22 PM PDT by OWK
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To: RAT Patrol
One question: Is morality good or bad?

let me just put it this way - your desire to use the apparatus of the state to force others to live by your particular religious view of sexual morality is bad.

1,100 posted on 06/26/2003 1:21:26 PM PDT by jethropalerobber
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