[George W. Bush]

Thanks for the implication that I'm insane.

You just said that "Now say the priest overhears this person bragging about how he encouraged and paid for his wife's abortion. The next time he comes up to the altar, the priest refuses him the Eucharist."

Now to me, that says the priest refused to give him the Eucharist. And I think anyone else would say the same thing.

The priest did in fact withold the grace of the sacrament by witholding the eucharist from the unrepentant sinner! How else can you parse your own handwritten example?

St. Rogatien of ancient Gaul was never baptized, never received the Eucharist, was never confirmed, never went to confession.

But this is not the practice or expectation of Rome in modern times. And I think that Rogatien could not have confessed because he lived prior to the institution of auricular confession which was, according to a leading German RC historian, Ignaz von Dollinger, unknown in the West for 1100 years and was never known to exist in the East at all. I am not suggesting that Rogatien is not necessarily in heaven however. No Prot or Baptist would. Any witness to the death for Christ is well-received by our Father.

[wideawake]

The priest did in fact withold the grace of the sacrament by witholding the eucharist from the unrepentant sinner!

He withheld the sacrament - not the grace of the sacrament. The grace of the sacrament was inaccessible to the sinner whether he received the Eucharist or was denied it.

a leading German RC historian, Ignaz von Dollinger

(1) Dollinger is not a Roman Catholic historian. He was an apostate historian.

(2) Dollinger's work was done over a century ago. Many documents have been found and much research has been done since his day to show that his conclusions are often incorrect.

(3) As an apostate he is a biased witness. A strong opponent of auricular confession is not likely to produce historical evidence in support of it.

(4) There is a difference between private auricular confession between a penitent and a priest and the truly sacramental aspect: that is, absolution. Public rites of penance for sin and pronunciations of formal absolution are attested by the earliest Church Fathers in both the East and West. Even today in the Catholic Church public rites of absolution may take the place of private confession in certain circumstances.

(5) Auricular confession as it is practiced often today (i.e. - anonymously, often in a darkened booth to shade the face of the penitent) is older than Dollinger ever suspected. It is attested in 8th century Ireland, for example - and Ireland on the outskirts of the Empire was rarely the first in anything related to sacramental ritual.

(6) Auricular, but not anonymous, confession has been practiced for centuries in the East - the Eastern Churches formally recognized it as a sacrament centuries before Dollinger was born.