"Sexually Inclusive Christians" Celebrate Victories, Push for More

Institute on Religion and Democracy ^ | Mark Tooley

[nobdysfool]

Would you also care to discuss the problems caused by the Western tradition of stating the commandment "thou shall not kill" when killing in self-and national defense is ordered by God elsewhere ? I think much anguish might have been avoided were the commandment stated as "thou shall not murder", which is consistent with the rest of the Bible.

If you would actually do a little research, you would find that "Thou Shalt Not Murder" is EXACTLY what God said to Moses, and wrote on the tablet of stone.

[nobdysfool]

Thank You for posting the Scriptural testimony which reasserts the Universal Atonement. Obviously not the flesh which was the sacrifice. It had been scarred. But the spirit indwelling the flesh identified with self and the soul, which remained perfect

One scripture does not a doctrine make. Obviously, the flesh WAS the sacrifice. Are you that blind that you cannot see? What part of "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree" is unclear to you?

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. (Heb 9:22)

Do you want to explain to all of us here how a Spirit can shed blood?

Denial of the literal Physical Atonement. A denial of orthodox Christian belief of centuries, clearly and forcefully shown in scripture. This is the legacy of Witness Lee and his cult. You are dangerously close to heresy, if you haven't already crossed that line.

[nobdysfool]

The points I have made are neither gnostic nor Pelagian. There seems to be a weakness for those who have begun their studies in systematic theology from Calvinist leaning doctrines to hastily label any understanding of Scripture other than Calvinism to only fall into the camp of Pelagian, Arminian, Gnostic, or Univeral theologies.

Theological systems from which you draw in a sort of a'la carte fashion. Arminianism is Semi-Pelagian and Molinistic at its very core. It was soundly condemned at the Synod of Dordt. You persist in espousing a doctrine of Arminain free will, Universal atonement, conditional election, and some esoteric ideas about "soulishness" (taken straight from Witness Lee/Watchman Nee), and other eclectic ideas that are not sound theology, not orthodox, and then get all huffy and snooty when anyone dares to challenge you on them. The tenor of many of your posts betrays a smug belief in your own superiority of knowledge vis-a-vis anyone else, and your tossing about terms that you don't define, knowing that most will not admit they don't know what you mean, serves to insulate you from all but the most pointed of attacks on your supposedly "superior" position. I have caught you in several out-and-out heretical statements, and your response was to publicly call my own salvation into question. If you think I'm going to let this go, you're wrong. I will withstand heresy wherever I see it.

[The Grammarian]

I love how off-topic we can get when someone brings up The Great Calvinist-Arminian Debate.

[nobdysfool]

I love how off-topic we can get when someone brings up The Great Calvinist-Arminian Debate.

Actually, in a tangental sort of way, this debate underlies everything else. In some ways, what we're seeing with this gay agenda in the churches is the end result of Arminian doctrine. It didn't start out that way, but this is where it eventually leads.

[Cvengr]

One scripture does not a doctrine make.

Here's a couple that stand pretty well on their own. Take your pick.

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[Cvengr]

What part of "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree" is unclear to you?

If the banker bears our debt in his wallet, is the lienholder anxious to receive the cash from within the wallet or is it the wallet without the cash itself that the lienholder forgives the debt? There are passages regarding the indwelling, the spirit, and things eternal which are more pertinent. There is also significance in the blood in sealing the New Covenant but more closely associated with the Eucharist.

[Cvengr]

“I know a lot of women who chose to become lesbian,” Kolodny said. “Love between two people is always beautiful,” she added, and should be regarded as part of free choice.

Must be something sound Scripturally behind volition, otherwise those fallen away wouldn't attempt to misuse the language so obviously. It would be far easier for Satan to attack man and homosexuals on the basis of free will through legalistic channels if it weren't so Scripturally profound.

[nobdysfool]

If the banker bears our debt in his wallet, is the lienholder anxious to receive the cash from within the wallet or is it the wallet without the cash itself that the lienholder forgives the debt?

Doesn't apply. Not a good analogy at all. Next...

There are passages regarding the indwelling, the spirit, and things eternal which are more pertinent. There is also significance in the blood in sealing the New Covenant but more closely associated with the Eucharist.

And what does the Lord's supper signify? The shedding of His blood and the brokenness of His body, for us. From the beginning, sin has been covered with shed blood. Two animals had to die for God to provide skins to cloth Adam and Eve. Blood was shed. All through the OT, blood was shed in sacrifice for sin, culminating in the antetype of those sacrifices, the crucifixion of Jesus. In reality, the OT sacrifices were the shadow, the symbolic sacrifices, of which the crucifixion of Christ was the REAL sacrifice. The OT sacrifices could only cover sin. Christ's physical death and shed Blood actually wiped out, destroyed, and did away with the sins of those whom He died for. It wasn't His Spirit that died, it was His flesh and blood body, which was resurrected 3 days later as a glorified flesh and bone body, incorruptible and perfect, but retaining the wounds of His crucifixion, as a testimony for all time and eternity of the sacrifice He made.

You are trying to make this "mystical" and "spiritual" as though that somehow were more "scriptural". It's not. It was Jesus Christ's physical death and shedding of His Blood that paid for the sins of His Elect people. Paid in full, I might add. Anything other than that is heresy, against scripture, and will result in damnation.

[Cvengr]

I've found the issue of Common Grace to better understood in light of an impersonal love towards all mankind and afforded to each individually.

There are other doctrinal issues regarding angels, their original eternal life, and judgment after their fall, whereas other than Adam, all man had been imputed with sin and dead in the spirit until they believe in Christ and His sacrifice provided substitutionary atonement for sin, thereby allowing the Holy Spirit to make our faith efficacious for salvation.

The doctrine of common grace in this fashion displays how man as a natural man isn't prone to Divine righteousness, because he lacks the Divine spirit, but once breathed in him, then may respond. Even upon faith, it isn't man's action which makes salvation effective, but rather the Holy Spirit.

Or this is how I understand the Scripture and doctrines to remain consistent.

[Cvengr]

You might find this understanding to be 'damnable'. I have found it through Him to be 'dam'able.

[CARepubGal]

Are you sure you are Christian Cvenger? You sound a lot more like gollum or Illbay.

[nobdysfool]

You might find this understanding to be 'damnable'. I have found it through Him to be 'dam'able.

Doctrines of demons will do that...

[Cvengr]

The Hebrew word for blood is DAM.

[nobdysfool]

The Hebrew word for blood is DAM.

Interesting, but what's yer point? am I supposed to be impressed with your little "play on words"?

Do you believe that it was the shed Blood of Jesus that satisfied the penalty for our sins? Yes or no?

[FourPeas]

"Why I left the United Methodist Church and Became a Southern Baptist."

That makes two of us.

[RnMomof7]

All the things you mention of a man not yet saved or fallen again in sin, even though once a believer, is indeed true, except that man still has the ability to choose. That Common grace enables him to choose to accept and believe in Christ and have faith in Him.

What do you do with those that God has sovereignly place in a place or a time where he will never hear the gospel? How does he choose? He has common grace but no gospel

The man who has faith in Christ is blessed and has the ability by Divine decree to choose without undue influence.

Sp faith does not lead to belief but to free will? Is prayer an undue influence?

This also sets an example for the angelic domain to observe the justice in His immutable decisions upon the fallen angelic state in the past.

For what ?

Why would you think it important for the angels to see the justice of God and not the reprobate? How is it an "immutable decision "of Gods if it is mans will?

[GrandMoM]

BUMP

[nobdysfool]

And what about that apology you owe me? HMMMM? I haven't questioned your salvation, and I would have a lot more grounds to do so...

It's really very simple...you just type the words, and click "post". Of course, I would prefer that you mean them, because a sincere apology would be pleasing to God, whereas an insincere apology would not find favor with Him. But then again, you would know all about that....

[snerkel]

Atonement is conditional, not universal.

Romans 10:9-10

9 Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with the heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God), and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [his] salvation.