Miguel Estrada Withdraws Application for Appeals Court Appointment

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[ZULU]

The hypocracy of the Democrats is only exceeded by the testicular atrophy of the Bush Administration and the Republicans in general.

[nathanbedford]

Just out of curiosity, what could they have done that they didn't within the rules.

This is a systemic breakdown of the entire Republican party of which Bush is the titular head and Rove is the chief mechanic.

What could they have done? They could have done what Slick and Dick Morris did before the '96 election. They could have gone on spanish radio stations and severed the Hispanic majority from the Democrat party for generations. Before the Republicans smelled the coffee, Clinton had his second term pre - won.

The failure to confirm Estrada is only symptomatic of the larger loss of the most important swing group in American politics.

Bush's sole strategy to win this group is to look the other way when somebody flings open the back door and yells "immigration."

Those who believe that the Republicans will gain from this episode are deluded. The Republicans surrendered because they could not win the propaganda war when the issue was live with a viable nominee. The party is over.

This is nothing less than a shattering political defeat.

[Celtman]

snopercod:
The republicans could have demanded a real filibuster, instead of a FINO.

HoustonCurmudgeon:
Please explain this to me. ... how we keep 50 Senators on the floor 24/7 to prevent quorum calls while the dims only need one or two who are speaking?

      You don't have to keep a quorum on the floor - just within call.  Maybe sacked out in their offices.  It's not difficult - it just takes commitment. 
      Real fillibusters have been used in the past - but probably not within the memory of most people alive today.  Commitment seems to be an endangered trait.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

You don't have to keep a quorum on the floor - just within call. Maybe sacked out in their offices. It's not difficult - it just takes commitment. Real fillibusters have been used in the past - but probably not within the memory of most people alive today. Commitment seems to be an endangered trait.

Rats rear. Everytime a few leave one of the handful of rats asks a quorum call. Breaking a fillibuster works when only a few are pulling it.

[Celtman]

Now take a good long look and see what the Republicans really did do and how they were blocked by the RATS!

      Don't confuse worthless activity with effective action. 

[PsyOp]

Bush's sole strategy to win this group is to look the other way when somebody flings open the back door and yells "immigration."

You may have a point there, but it still does not answer my question.

What could the Republicans have done in the Senate to get Estrada confirmed that they did not or would not do?

I am looking for specifics here, not rhetoric.

[Celtman]

Everytime a few leave one of the handful of rats asks a quorum call.

      So ... the Rats are more committed than the RINOs?

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

So ... the Rats are more committed than the RINOs?

Either I'm not getting through to you are you don't understand math. It takes 50 Senators for a quorum anything less and you have to shut down. We have 55. The dims only need the guy who is talking to be on the floor plus perhaps one other to ask questions and keep him awake. If we fall below 50 they question a quorum which means a call must be done.

This means 40 of theirs can be home in bed with two showing up every few hours to replace the ones talking. We have to keep 50 or there is no quorum and it shuts down. I do not know how to explain it better. Unless there is no dim to speak we will never get a vote with 55 Senators.

[nathanbedford]

What could the Republicans have done in the Senate to get Estrada confirmed that they did not or would not do?

As I said this is systemic breakdown in the Republican party. If the Republicans in the senate had brought on a real fillibuster, cloture would have failed. But it might have suceeded if Rove came off some money and went to the radio stations and coordinated an attack.

The failure was not just one thing or another, it was systemic. It wasn't the fog, the Panzers, the single lane road, or the bridge too far - it was a lack of will, a lack of leadership, a stingyness and lack of coordination. All of this is ultimately the President's job as head of the party.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

Either I'm not getting through to you are you

or stupid, OR

[Celtman]

Either I'm not getting through to you [or] you don't understand math.

      Sorry, I'm a mathematician.  I'm not getting through to you.

I do not know how to explain it better.

      Maybe by explaining what has changed (besides the level of commitment) since fillibusters were last used.  Math has not changed.  (Except, as noted by snopercod in post 51, the numbers were changed in 1975 to make cloture a little easier.)

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

Given that I KNOW how it works and have spelled it out, you tell me how you think it should work and I'll tell you how you are wrong.

Be sure to use your math, not sound bites.

[snopercod]

Sure, I'll elaborate.

The republicans in the senate let the democrats "filibuster" without having to filibuster. Apparently they didn't want to miss martini-call down at the local bar.

A real filibuster requires that the senator remain on the floor of the senate and actually speak. I believe Strom Thurmond has the record - over 24 hours.

But the republicans wanted the RATS to love them, so they tried to be magnanamous and let the rats hold up the nomination without doing anything as annoying as a real filibuster. So they agreed to a FINO: Filibuster In Name Only.

Tom Daschle is probably laughing his head off right now at how dumb the republicans are to let them get away with this.

If I understand correctly, this is the first time that a filibuster has been used to hold up a judicial nomination. The got away with it.

[mabelkitty]

DU linking this thread to their trashy site..

[snopercod]

Read [this], and [this], paying special attention to the last sentence in this last one.

Frist could have won this if he wanted to. But he chose to let Estrada be a martyr in a futile attempt to garner more hispanic votes in the 2004 elections.

It won't work. Hispanics and blacks always vote democrat regardless. Both groups like it on the plantation, apparently.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

Read them both. Neither changes a word I said. NEITHER, NOTHING, NADA, ZERO .... not a word.

I do not like it, nor do I agree with it, and am not defending the stupid rules. I do however understand them and know that bitching about it is useless. If you have solution let me know but yelling at the sky is a waste of time.

[PsyOp]

Sure, I'll elaborate.

Thanks. That's what I wanted to know.

[PsyOp]

Thanks. Between you and snoppercod I've had my question answered.

[Celtman]

Given that I KNOW how it works ...

      Sorry, your hypothesis is not accepted.  Again, what has changed?

[Cboldt]

First time a filibuter has been used on a District or Circuit court apointee. GOP used it against a Supreme Court appointee (Fortas).

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/976173/posts <-- good article, long. The last paragraph discusses the "politicization of the judical branch." A bit frightening, but we already saw that with the SCOFLA in the 2000 election, etc.