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Second U.S. Judge Blocks 'Do-Not-Call' List
Fox News ^ | http://www.foxnews.com/

Posted on 09/25/2003 4:10:17 PM PDT by Hotdog

War of the laws?...whats next?


TOPICS: Breaking News
KEYWORDS: donotcalllist
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To: elfman2
I tune in my television because I want to; I do not recieve telemarketing calls because I want to.

I can disconnect my television without undue loss; I cannot disconnect my phone without disrupting my private or professional life.

For the telemarketers to not call me causes no loss to them, however; for I would never purchase anything from a telemarketer anyway.
381 posted on 09/26/2003 1:54:08 PM PDT by kevao (Fuques France!)
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To: elfman2
Take it up with your congresscritter.
382 posted on 09/26/2003 2:34:07 PM PDT by hotpotato
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To: elfman2
I'm sorry, but your radio analogy is silly.

You choose to turn it on. It doesn't ring. You have your choice of stations. Pick another, and you'll never have to hear CNN again. Not so with telescum.

There is no right to commit theft of service in order to speak just as there's no right to trespass in order to speak.
383 posted on 09/26/2003 2:37:08 PM PDT by jimt
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To: rogator
Numbers are already here
384 posted on 09/26/2003 3:06:10 PM PDT by Hotdog
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To: kevao
"I tune in my television because I want to; I do not recieve telemarketing calls because I want to. "

You receive all kinds of garbage on your TV that you don’t want. You can install an answering machine for next to nothing if you don’t want to talk to them. If none of those 50 million signed up were prone to purchasing, telemarketers wouldn’t care.

385 posted on 09/26/2003 3:17:35 PM PDT by elfman2
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To: hotpotato
"Take it up with your congresscritter."

No problem. Especially now that the precedent is set. My racist neighbor wants all blacks on his do not call list and doesn’t want to rent to them or have them enter his motel. Calls it trespassing… I’ll suggest he put you down as a reference.

386 posted on 09/26/2003 3:22:20 PM PDT by elfman2
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To: jimt
" I'm sorry, but your radio analogy is silly. You choose to turn it on. It doesn't ring. You have your choice of stations. Pick another, and you'll never have to hear CNN again. Not so with telescum. There is no right to commit theft of service in order to speak just as there's no right to trespass in order to speak. "

You choose to turn your phone on. Your TV makes noise even when you don’t want it to. I hear CNN referenced everywhere, even here. Apparently, you support ABC’s right to “theft of service” every time you scan through them on your TV. I think you’re selective objections are “silly”.

387 posted on 09/26/2003 3:26:11 PM PDT by elfman2
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To: Vinnie
This is no different than putting a 'No Solicitors' sign on your front door.

There actually is one very big difference.

If you and some of your neighbors put "No Solicitors" signs on your front doors, the door-to-door salesmen can simply see the signs, avoid those homes, go to the ones without the signs, and be in full compliance with the law with minimal effort and no special cost. Furthermore, what you have there is a level playing field for ALL door-to-door salesmen. What is more, if everyone in your neighborhood puts up signs, fine, but if there are those who don't put up signs because they DO want to be called on by door-to-door salesmen, nobody has restricted their right to receive such salesmen on to their property.

On the other hand, as the "Do Not Call" registry is presently implemented, the ONLY way that ANY business, no matter how large or how small, can discover whether or not ANYONE has posted the telephonic equivalent of that "No Solicitors" sign is to pay $7,735 per year for access to the national registry -- even if they are a small business and only need to look up an occasional number, even only one per year. Businesses can get free look-up access for up to five area codes, but have to pay for the rest of the US. $7,735 might not sound like a whole lot to you, and it may not be a whole lot to giant corporations, but for many small businesses, that can represent a big chunk of their total marketing budget. On the other hand, if they don't pay the $7,735 per year, make even one call outside of their 5-area-code region that happens to be to someone on the Do-Not-Call Registry, they could get hit with an $11,000 fine. It is not the big telemarketing companies that will get hurt under this scheme -- they'll invest the $7K, program the list into their system, and proceed to call everyone that doesn't have that telephonic "No Solicitors" sign. But the small business that might have occasion to call up a single lead here or there every once in a while will be out of luck. They can't spend the money to comply, they can't afford to risk being fined for not complying, so they simply won't risk making calls outside of their 5-area-code region. In effect, what we've got here is the equivalent of some people in the neighborhood having "No Solicitors" signs, but now they are in invisible ink, and they can only be seen if you buy a $7,735 device from the government, otherwise if you knock on a door and then discover that it had an invisible sign, then the government hits you up with an $11,000 fine. Who is it that is really being "protected" in this protection racket? This is NOT a level playing field; I believe that it can fairly be called "restraint of trade", and that's neither right nor beneficial to consumers.

I'm not against the Do-Not-Call Registry, I've even signed up myself. What I AM against is the failure of the FTC to provide a free single-number lookup service on their website. That is all that most small businesses would ever need, and it would not be all that difficult for the FTC to program. The refusal of the government to implement this simple little expedient is indicative to me that another agenda than "consumer protection" is at work here, and that it is small businesses, rather than mass-dialing telemarketers, that are really getting the short end of the stick here.

388 posted on 09/26/2003 3:50:47 PM PDT by Stefan Stackhouse
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To: m1-lightning
This "do not call list" does not cover out of country telemarketers.

"Do Not Call", AKA "The India Telemarkers Full Employment Act"

389 posted on 09/26/2003 3:58:27 PM PDT by Stefan Stackhouse
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To: elfman2
Pulling out the racist card, are you? Does that usually work for you? Nevermind. Both are rhetorical questions.

Your hyperbole is a waste of my time. At some point, you'll figure out that it's a waste of yours, too.
390 posted on 09/26/2003 4:00:28 PM PDT by hotpotato
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To: Naspino
Please everyone stop saying 50 million people. They say that they have 50 million phone numbers. One is mine and it covers four people. One is my brothers and it covers five people. This has to cover 100-200 million people.

Point taken.

And given that, we should dispense with the tar-and-feathering and go straight to the hanging.

391 posted on 09/26/2003 4:19:47 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham
Is this why the Congress passed it in one day...whew...looks like the people CAN make a difference!
392 posted on 09/26/2003 4:27:57 PM PDT by Hotdog
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To: Hotdog; Naspino
I checked some Census data:

Total households: 105M (2000 Census)

Percent households with telephones: 96% (extrapolated from 1990 Census).

Modified total households: 101M

Average residents per household: 2.62 (2000 Census)

Total signataries to the Do-Not-Call list: 51M

Total number of US residents screwed by this judge: 134M

Potential total number of US residents screwed by this rat judge if all households with telephones sign up to the registry: 265M

No surprise the Congress acted in record time. And this judge had better sign up for "Call Waiting". LOL!

393 posted on 09/26/2003 4:53:35 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham
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To: hotpotato
"Pulling out the racist card, are you? "

If you can’t recognize the difference between the race care (calling someone a racist) and applying extreme criteria for don’t call list selection to show the arbitrary nature of what might annoy someone, that’s not my problem.

394 posted on 09/26/2003 5:11:43 PM PDT by elfman2
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To: tiamat
And as for your idea that one should just get a phone with caller ID, that doesn't wash. I find the sound of phone ringing to be jarring and disruptive.

Then turn your phone off or throw it out.

We're just inventing new rights by the hour here. Now it's the Constitutional right to not have your phone ring.
395 posted on 09/26/2003 5:42:04 PM PDT by Conservative til I die (They say anti-Catholicism is the thinking man's anti-Semitism; that's an insult to thinking men)
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To: Conservative til I die
We're just inventing new rights by the hour here. Now it's the Constitutional right to not have your phone ring.

The Constitutional right to ring somebody else's phone even when that somebody doesn't want you to ring their phone -- now that's BOR material.

396 posted on 09/26/2003 5:59:44 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: elfman2
that’s not my problem.

Your spin is not mine.

See my post #390. bye

397 posted on 09/26/2003 5:59:51 PM PDT by hotpotato
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To: elfman2
The access point owners...

The access point owner has the right to limit the speech of telemarketers on your phone, but you the owner of the phone, and you the partial owner of the public phone lines doesn't????

398 posted on 09/26/2003 6:03:44 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: hotpotato
"Your spin is not mine. See my post #390. bye "

I’ll give your delusion the attention it deserves.

399 posted on 09/26/2003 7:09:56 PM PDT by elfman2
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To: FreeReign
"The access point owner has the right to limit the speech of telemarketers on your phone, but you the owner of the phone, and you the partial owner of the public phone lines doesn't???? "

The access owner has no right to limit speech. He has the right to refuse to support it. But when the government steps in and says you’ll do it our way (or the listener's way) or we’ll fine or jail you, that’s limiting speech.

400 posted on 09/26/2003 7:15:10 PM PDT by elfman2
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