[Liz]

Surely the talented Mel Gibson ---recipient of several Oscars for acting and directing---was prepared for the ragtag cadre of naysayers bent on marginalizing his awesome film.

It was never entirely practical to think that non-believers---even at a purely intellectual and artistic level----would embrace Gibson's efforts on a subject in which he sincerely believes with all of his heart and soul---a subject Gibson shares with millions of American Christians, not to mention global Christianity numbering in the billions.

However, it appears that some of Gibson's critics cross the line into a demonstration of utter hatred for Christians, Christianity, and the Biblical facts of Jesus Christ making the ultimate sacrifice by dying on the cross to save humanity.

Christians cannot, nor should they be expected to, countenance hatred of themselves or their beliefs.

It's apparent that Gibson's film is unnerving to a small pocket of naysayers imbedded in our culture. These types have put in decades of work----together with calculated, concerted efforts---to subugate believers, to discredit Christianity, and to remove all signs of religion from our culture.

But they have never been able to remove belief from the hearts of the people. This is where they've failed miserably.

One might conclude that Mel's film is anathema to the naysayers because it shines a light on the eternal story that animates Christians and it ennobles Chritianity and those that accept its tenets.

[Caipirabob]

Some of my thoughts on the many "Passion" threads:

I don't think the issue is "Jew vs Gibson's 'Passion'" it's "Secular Liberals vs Gibson's 'Passion'" of which many are secular/liberal Jews. You find more support for the movie coming from conservative Jews who respect our faith. On top of that, both groups are united in our common cause against secular/liberals.

My big concern, with all the left has failed to do to stop this movie and the hype surrounding it, is that they may resort to voilence in the end to keep people from seeing the movie.

We are discussing a polarizing event, but it's even more than Christianity vs Liberalism . It is very much Good vs Evil. The threat that the message of Christ's sacrifice poses to them has driven them into a panic. I really believe they are prepared to do anything to stop that message from spreading.

So anyone hear anything about when THE SEQUEL will be out?

[samtheman]

What gets lost in all the fuss about this film is the simple fact that the staunchest supporters of the state of Israel (outside of the Jewish community) are the Conservative Christians in the USA. The reason this fact gets left out of all these discussions is because the discussions are led by leftists --- who hate the Christian religion and the Israeli state with an equal passion.

[dawn53]

I posted this quote the other day.

It was posted by Dialup Llama in a thread earlier this week, and he/she did a good job of nailing down the hypocrisy. Here is his quote:

They loved Jesus when he was a clown (Godspell). They went crazy over Him as rock star (Jesus Christ Superstar). When Jesus was portrayed as having an affair with Mary Magdelene (Last Temptation) or as a homosexual (Corpus Christie), the liberal theologians did not object, but took it as an opportunity to explore the misnamed 'historical Jesus.' They cannot stand Jesus as savior. The crucified person is too much for them. They would much prefer the affable teller of parables.

[R. Scott]

crossing over into Christian-hating

I know that language changes over time, but lately “hatred” seems to have become synonymous with “disagreement”.
If I disagree with some tenets of a religion I must hate that religion.
If I disagree with the homosexual lifestyle, I must hate homosexuals.
If I disagree with some aspects of a racial norm, I must hate that race.
If I disagree with a political party’s stance, I must hate that party.
If I disagree with a politician on any aspect of policy, I must hate that politician.

Sorry, I refuse to “hate” unless there is a real driving deep seated reason. “Hate” is a very strong emotion - possibly the strongest one we have. I will “disagree” or “dislike”, but not hate - no matter how politically correct it may be today.

[veronica]

Have you seen the film?

[alnick]

In the early 1960s, the Catholic Church's Vatican II Council stated that Jews of the past, as well as the Jews of today, bear no responsibility for the death of Jesus.

If this is true, Vatican II was wrong. Every human who ever lived, except for Jesus Christ, bears the responsibility for the death of Jesus. That's the point that these people are missing.

[AD from SpringBay]

I don't hear any body from real life (people I know, work with, share meals with, across the counter at the gas station, etc...) complaining about the movie. It's sort of like all the wailing when that Kennedy guy and his chick had that plane crash. I never did meet someone who cared to the extent that the "World News Tonight" cared.

It's a lot of noise coming from a very small, albiet very loud, squeeky wheel. And if I ever heard someone complaining about the movie it would be my opportunity to smugly say, "Well if you don't like it, you don't have to watch it."

[Gritty]

Are these the same people who, if we object to Hollyweird's gratuitous violence and sexual perversion which is polluting our culture, smirk and haughtily tell us to "just turn it OFF if you don't like it!"?

[Chris Talk]

What this article claims is as a matter of fact, false!

There was no Gentile Christianity of any size in existence yet when the Gospels were written. The believers were just as much Jews [ethnically and by faith] as their mortal enemies the Pharisees were.

The authors were themselves Jews [Luke is now understood to have already been a convert to Judaism, or perhaps his PARENTS had been, before he met St Paul and embraced Jesus as the Messiah.], who had fled Israel because of the terrible war, the First Jewish Revolt of AD 66-73.

There were earlier notes and source materials [no longer extant] in Hebrew and Greek, but the best scholarship now is, that these were written in their final form as we have them by:

Mark, c 60-75 AD, Italy or having just fled from Italy because of the persecution under Nero Caesar.

Matthew, c 72-84 AD, Egypt having just fled from Israel.

Luke, c 78- 92 AD, probably Antioch, or certainly in what we now call Turkey and its offshore islands.

John, c 100 AD, Ephesus, now on W coast of Turkey S of Izmir. This book is an as-told-to because although John was a highly educated priest and a kinsman of Jesus, his Greek was a little rough, as shown in Revelation which he DID write with his own hand.

[Contra]

Some Jews are either very paranoid or out and out anti-Christian, or some of both. Jews had a hand in killing Jesus and Jesus was Jewish too, duh. Listen to some of what Jews are saying about Christians these days and you would think you are listening to an atheist or a muslim. And the funny thing is, many Christians are the best friends Jews could ever have, very supportive of Judaism as it is also an important part of their faith. If Christians start to feel some anti-semitism it won't be due to what Jews did to Jesus, it will be due to what Jews of today do and say towards Christians.

[Gal.5:1]

But they have never been able to remove belief from the hearts of the people. This is where they've failed miserably.
--
Amen to that.