S.O.S. Romanian church in Malainita, Serbia

Orthodox bump!

The very name of Daniela Soros should betray the motives, and the poster -- shiprag -- is a nubie barely three months on the FR.

The article is full of garbage -- from incorrect spelling of the town (Malainitsa) or region (Tymok), to grammatical errors/omissions - probably dleiberate -- (i.e. serbian with a lowercase "s"), to "logic" one would expect from a two-year old (although she admits the Vlachs -- the Romanian minority there -- may have violated some regulations, the only reason they are being punished is because they are a minority with no rights).

The contextual background Ms Soros leaves out of this insignificant but overblown event goes back to December 6, 2004, when a Romanian archbishop (episkop) came to Malajnica (Malaynitsa), Serbia, unannounced, without even a mayor or the local Serbian bishop knowing, to bless the bell of a new Romanian Orthodox church. The church building itself was built over an existing private home (remodeling) without a permission from building authorities as to the possible violations of any building codes or fire hazards, noise pollution, and so on.

The archbishop used this occasion for separatist and political purposes, with uncalled-for separatist and nationalist message -- an obvious provocation.

The charges made by the author are unsubstantiated by a single verifiable fact or court document. There are almost three dozen national minorities who had no problems being there for the last few hundred years. No one ever tried to push them out, or change their culture. Serbia's laws permit national minority rights and even go farther than most western countries in providing support for them.

Unlike the West (which is supposedly the standard for all to emulate), in Serbia In Serbia, or example, ethnic languages are official languages in addition to Serbian in all areas where a certain minority represents local majority. In Serbia the government that pays for all the ethnic-language schools and programs, newspapers, etc. In the West, one is allowed to observe cultural heritage through schools and cultural events -- on private funds. No American taxpayer will pay for some Romanian child in Chicago to attend Romanian-language schools, or for a Romanian-language newspapers and radio! neither will America give equal status to a foreing language other than English. Yet in Serbia the fifth column minorities have come to expect such benefits from Serbian taxpayers because of their "right" to live in Serbia!

Let me make myself clear about this God-given right to life: there isn't one! Not one of us has a right to life. We have all been condemned to death, no matter how good, how rich, how pretty or how stupid. Life is one unpredictable death row. And without life, all other rights become meaningless.

Rights come with responsibilities. The two go hand-in-hand. The modern world, mostly in America, has redefined this as a unilateral affair, without corresponding responsibilities. So, we have come to expect something that is not ours by nature or by God to expect. We take it for granted rather than to cherish as something that was loaned. As a loan, we are expected to care for it, and pay it back. But the me-me-me cretinism sees it as a gift without any payback necessary.

So this is yet another "I'm the victim" cry of a people who enjoyed life among Serbs without disturbance for hundreds of years and have only now decided that, somehow, the provisions of the European Union apply to Mayevitsa -- but not to Kosovo!

By none other than another Soros humanoid.

Sorry -- cut and paste errors

in Serbia In Serbia, or example = In Serbia, for xample

In Serbia the government that pays = In Serbia the government pays

Bishops turning up in another patriachate without permission is not good. I trust Patriarch Pavel sent a strong protest.

This kind of thing makes me all the more eager for the contra-canonical situation in North America to be fixed and for us to have our own Patriarchate. The world indeed imitates America, and unfortunately, it seems even some Orthodox bishops in traditionally Orthodox countries, who should know better, to want to emulate the ethnic separatism which had plagued the Church in America since the Bolshevik Revolution cut us off from Moscow and Patriarch Miletius (of sorrowful memory) seized the opportunity to poach territory with the establishement of the Greek Archdiocese.

We in America aren't spiritually mature enough to have our own Patriarchate -- the thought of us on our own without any moorings is a little frightening -- but we should all be under one structure, under the omophorion of an "old world" primate. My vote would be for either Moscow or the Church of Greece proper. Both are real churches with real dioceses and real experience in administering them. But we need to get to where there is only one bishop in each geographical area here in the US, with all Orthodox parishes in that area being ministered to and supervised by a single bishop. Most national churches in the history of the Orthodox Church who received autocephaly had been in existence far longer and were far more stable at the time of receiving autocephaly than our brief and tumultuous existence here.

How often do we read about this sort of thing here in the US when zoning laws are used to bully Church construction projects.

I know of an OCA Church in Reston VA that has been trying to build a church on some property that they purchased several years ago. Their neighbors decided they don't want a church there and they've been using the zoning laws to prevent any construction for nearly a decade.

Someone want to call Soros and seek their aid?

I guess maybe being in the Diocese of Wichita and Mid-America under
Bishop BASIL makes me a little more sanguine about our spiritual maturity.

Great post, Kosta.

I would just like to dwell on the particular point that renders the whole thing laughable and preposterous. She admits that "...the Romanians in Malainitsa might have broken some formal legal provisions concerning the need for an approval...".
Might have?! Well, they obviously did go against the law. During Miloshevich's reign, they probably would've gotten away with it. Not today. Serbia (especially the bigger cities) has a huge problem with the so-called "wild construction" (rampant illegal const.) and it was about time the Government did something about it. For example, there was this guy who had built a family home atop a residential building in downtown Belgrade! I kid you not!

There is no way the permit was denied on the basis of ethnicity. That is preposterous. There are dozens of Romanian churches across the Serbian northeast (especially in Banat) and one more church -- an Orthodox one, at that! --- wouldn't hurt anybody. For Christ's sake, Serbia (its taxpayers, actually) subsidizes every religion on its territory! And this is the thanks Serbia gets. Imagine if Serbia followed the example of the Western states and cut off all the financial support to the religious/cultural/ethnic/minority groups living in Serbia. I can't imagine what would happen.

Furthermore, "...such a requirement for them is unreasonable because nobody in the village was ever demanded to obtain such an approval for a private building, as it is usually the case in the countryside."

Now, if there's a need for a Romanian church in the village, I bet there's a large number/percentage of Romanians living there. Have they ever had a problem with the local zoning commission? The above paragraph says they have not. Case closed, as far as I am concerned.

Imagine if everybody started building whatever they wanted, wherever they wanted.

These people should learn to respect the laws of the country they live in and get over themselves. And not just the Romanians -- everybody who lives there! I am sick of these yahoos whining about having to respect the law.

Great post, Kosta.

I would just like to dwell on the particular point that renders the whole thing laughable and preposterous. She admits that "...the Romanians in Malainitsa might have broken some formal legal provisions concerning the need for an approval...".
Might have?! Well, they obviously did go against the law. During Miloshevich's reign, they probably would've gotten away with it. Not today. Serbia (especially the bigger cities) has a huge problem with the so-called "wild construction" (rampant illegal const.) and it was about time the Government did something about it. For example, there was this guy who had built a family home atop a residential building in downtown Belgrade! I kid you not!

There is no way the permit was denied on the basis of ethnicity. That is preposterous. There are dozens of Romanian churches across the Serbian northeast (especially in Banat) and one more church -- an Orthodox one, at that! --- wouldn't hurt anybody. For Christ's sake, Serbia (its taxpayers, actually) subsidizes every religion on its territory! And this is the thanks Serbia gets. Imagine if Serbia followed the example of the Western states and cut off all the financial support to the religious/cultural/ethnic/minority groups living in Serbia. I can't imagine what would happen.

Furthermore, "...such a requirement for them is unreasonable because nobody in the village was ever demanded to obtain such an approval for a private building, as it is usually the case in the countryside."

Now, if there's a need for a Romanian church in the village, I bet there's a large number/percentage of Romanians living there. Have they ever had a problem with the local zoning commission? The above paragraph says they have not. Case closed, as far as I am concerned.

Imagine if everybody started building whatever they wanted, wherever they wanted.

These people should learn to respect the laws of the country they live in and get over themselves. And not just the Romanians -- everybody who lives there! I am sick of these yahoos whining about having to respect the law.

I could never figure those Serbs out. They piss and moan about their churches and monasteries being destroyed in Kosovo (rightly so), but now they go and destroy a church belonging to their fellow Orthodox believers. I know there were posts about one bishop not infringing on the territory of another bishop...but I am sure the two patriarchs could have settled things more fraternally.

It's not the Serbian Church that's doing this, it's the government enforcing construction laws.

The main (listed) author's name is SOROS DANIELA MIOARA and by the middle name you can tell it's not any of the George's family. Just because someone ( not native English speaker) is not as good in English or didn't work enough to present a petition in a better (accurate) language, it shouldn't make the Romanians' point weaker. Also, because of the different language family, Romanians pronounce and spell place names differently from Serbs.
At least in the capital Bucharest there is other Romanians with the Soros and SOROSTINEAN last name.
Remember what some of you said when an orthodox cross was blown up in Albania by a few angry state workers, because the cross was build illegally in a UNESCO-protected archaeological park ? In our present case is the Serb authorities involved and the slavo-greek members react pretty defensive. What comes around goes around and I'm afraid that at the end of this topic Orthodoxs' might not feel very good.
The "newbie" will give you some news.

Are Romanians the only ones having problems?

What about the "fair" treatment of the other minority, Hungarians of Vojvodina?

http://www.voanews.com/english/2004-12-17-voa78.cfm

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Her friend Zoltan, 30, an ethnic Hungarian, is an anomaly. Following the revolution, he came back to Serbia after eight years in Canada. "The fact is many people in this country would leave this country first thing, if given a chance," he said.

Just married, Zoltan wants to start a business in Novi Sad. And even though he worries about recurrent anti-Hungarian violence and a halt to economic reform, he's not ready to give up on Serbia. "If things improve here, I'll still choose staying here. I was born here. This was the country I lived in for two-thirds of my life," he told us.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3656146.stm
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At the heart of the problem are reports of increasing incidences of violence by Serb nationalists against ethnic Hungarians, who make up about 15% of the population in Vojvodina.

The violence has included vandalism to Hungarian cemeteries, attacks on Hungarian property and threats against local politicians there.
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Father Justin in the area said the SOC would pursue the ROC's actions legally. he called this incident a "scandal of unsee proportions."

unsee=unseen

How about the treatment of the national majority (Serbs) in the areas where a national minority is in the majority? A bunch of hooligans do not represent Serbs as a people, let alone Serbia as a state.

Get a permit from the zoning commission first and then build.

There are 15 ministries in Vojvodina's Executive Council (Government). At least 6 ministers are of Hungarian descent. That's about 40%.

Banat, good to hear from you. I thought you left the FR for good. As you see, good inside information is still needed to counter distoritons and lies by various interest groups who have decided that it's good time to feats on wounded Serbia.

Of all places, Voyvodina is the the most multinational and multicultural. What some people neglect top understand is that contrary to the vicious western propaganda -- Serbia has laws, and they apply to all citizens regardless of nationality or religious preference.

This appeal is a bogus attempt to profit from deliberate obfuscation of facts -- by whining, hiding behind (in)famous names and playing a perpetual victim.

At least in the capital Bucharest there is other Romanians with the Soros and SOROSTINEAN last name

I am sure there are. Is this a common name? If so, it would be good to disclaim any connection to George from the start -- lest there be a confusion. If someone writes under George W. Bush, don't you think it would be a good idea to let everyone know it's not the GWB? A little situational awareness goes a long way.

If this lady is a president of some official organization, she needs to get someone who can actually speak and write English correctly to redact her public notices. It just makes the whole thing a little bit more credible. The west is funny about that. Just a friendly advice.

She needs to show, prove, that this particular case has a precedent among Serbs and that the law was applied unfairly. She is making an awful lot of accusations without a shred of evidence to support them. In the west, people assume innocence until guilt is proven. So, the burden of proof is on Ms Soros, not the Serbian mayor, or the Serbs in that region.

Arguing that this was done before is not an excuse. Many people speed but only some get caught and punished with a ticket. I can just see someone appealing to a traffic judge in America by saying he or she received a speeding ticket because he or she is black/Filipino or Filipina, Polish, etc! Good luck! Or to try to argue that others have broken the speed limit and didn't get punished for it! Go ahead, tell Ms Soros to use those arguments in America!

Blowing up a cross and legally removing something that should not be there are two different things. Blowing up anything is a terrorist act unless it is for purposes of legal demolition. If an Orthodox cross was put up illegally it should have been removed, but not blown up. No one has blown up that Romanian church in this particular case.

I don't really give a rat's a$$ if minorities in Serbia have a problem being in Serbia. Corsicans have problems being in France, Catalans and Basques have problems being in Spain, Irish Catholics have problems being in UK, Kurds have problems being in Iraq, Turkey and Iran, etc. What's your point?

The problem is whether some group of people are actively harassed and attacked, if their culture is being systematically destroyed, oppressed etc. and whether the authorities are tacitly supporting it. None of this is going on in Serbia.

As for spelling, Serbia uses Cyrillic alphabet officially. You can spell Serbian names and words by transliterates them into English, using established transliteration method for other Cyrillic languages, or you can use Croatian spelling, which is currently a substitute way of transliterating. If a Serb writes in English, he or she will not spell out New York as NYuyork (although that's how it is spelled in Serbian) or Tina Turner as Tina Tarner. Time to join the rest of the world!

As for minorities and minority rights. Serbia should do as much as and not one iota more than what is being done for minorities in "civilized" countries (read: the west). That does not include taxpayer supported ethnic schools, media and so on. And I can tell you that Serbia is doing above and beyond what the western countries are doing for their minorities.

Sure, you've got it good, and I'm glad for you. Bp. Basil is a bit of a hero of mine. I've got it great under Bp. Tikhon of the DOW in the OCA. I've met Bp. Longin of the Serbs, and he was one of the most remarkable men I have ever met in my life. But would you seriously want to depend on the average bishop in the US to guide the American church? Would you seriously want to depend on the American church to be able consistently to produce and promote to the episcopacy bishops of the caliber of Bp. Basil and Bp. Tikhon? Is Bp. Basil the most respected and influential bishop in the Antiochian Archdiocese, or is he forced to hide out in Wichita to protect his people? Is Bp. Tikhon the most respected and influential bishop in the OCA, or is he forced to hide out on the West Coast, keeping the more unpleasant trends in the OCA at bay?

Granted, I take a bit of a isolationist approach: I am at a pretty traditional and pretty isolated parish, and we have a very traditional priest that I hope we can keep for a long time, and that we will be able to find one equally traditional to replace him. I don't think that the powers that be on the coasts are really going to care what goes on out here in the boonies, and that we can be as traditionally Orthodox as we like, as long as we don't make waves. But do I have assurance that the OCA could deal us a priest at random from St. Vlads or St. Tikhon's and that we'd be happy with him? No.

Is blowing up a cross equal to demolishing a church?
Does it really matter how a person or object dies/gets destroyed?

Again, some of you guys forget what's about, the cult object involved in between both CHRISTIAN sides and deal with the minor thing of how better could the Romanians have written that petition (?!?)

Is this the lawful Serbia some of you know?

Serbia parties called 'mafia'-riddled
Nicholas Wood IHT -- Tuesday, September 14, 2004
http://www.iht.com/articles/538687.html

Serbia Faces International, Domestic Pressures to Improve Foreign Policy
Barry Wood - Belgrade - 18 Oct 2004, 12:58 UTC

http://www1.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=7A74E8D9-E386-4B4E-ABB9D984EE03D618&title=Serbia%20Faces%20International%2C%20Domestic%20Pressures%20to%20Improve%20Foreign%20Policy&catOID=45C9C78C-88AD-11D4-A57200A0CC5EE46C&categoryname=Europe

Unfortunately for the good people or bishops that you know, the Serb Orthodox Church has its sins.

http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/early/pesic/pesic3.html
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The main role in defining the situation in Kosovo was taken over by an organized movement of Serbs from Kosovo that had the support of the Orthodox Church and the Serbian intelligentsia. These Serbs' demands were almost always aimed at constitutional changes that would establish a united Serbia, but they endeavored even more to change the ethnic domination in Kosovo. Their main interpretation of the "Serbian tragedy" in Kosovo was that the ethnic Albanians had gained control through the 1974 constitution, and that the only way to stop the "ethnic cleansing" of Serbs in Kosovo was to reinstate Serbian domination there.59

Serbian ressentiment.
The very expression of Serbian nationalism and the new vision of the Serbian state invoked by Serbian nationalist intellectuals aggravated ethnic tensions.71 The task of redefining the Serbian nation was undertaken by both the conservative faction of the Serbian intelligentsia and the Serbian Orthodox Church in collaboration with the political leadership, which had control over the mass media. The reawakening of Serbian national consciousness followed classic methods of "nation-building," including descriptions of "national treasures" and cultural uniqueness.72 They encouraged the Serbian national community to imagine itself as an "endangered species" that urgently needed its own state in order to protect itself from other "species." The basic emotion upon which Serbian national identity was built was the enmity of other Yugoslav peoples.73 This is best illustrated in the words of the writer and "father of the Serbian nation," Dobrica Cosic: "The enemies of the Serbs made Serbs Serbs."74 Another well-known Serbian writer expressed the same thought: "The Serbian issue was started and opened by others. They straightened us out by blows, made us sober by offenses, woke us up by injustices, brought light and united us by coalitions. They hate us because of Yugoslavia, and now it seems they do not leave her, but us."75

The second, external, component contained a revision of Serbian relations with other nations and with Yugoslavia as a whole. This new set of relations appeared for the first time in 1986 with the unofficial publication of the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts' draft "Memorandum," which was an attempt to present systematically the situation of the Serbs as a whole nation. Based on that document and many positions taken by well-known Serbian writers and members of the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts appearing daily in the Serbian media, seven key themes of Serbian ressentiment are identified here.76

Orthodox priests demanded that they be allowed to take Serbian victims murdered in World War II out of mass graves and to rebury them with dignity.86 Exhuming mass graves and the reburial of remains has a symbolic role of defining the borders of the Serbian state: Where there are Serbian graves, there are also Serbian borders. The number of past genocide victims increased every day during this particular Serbian nationalist campaign, which led to disputes with Croatia over the exact number of Serbs murdered. The number of victims was, in fact, overstated in order to force the Croats to publicly deny the inflated numbers. In such a fashion, the Serbs could conclude that Croats wanted to hide their genocidal crimes against Serbs in order to deflect attention from preparations for another future campaign: "It seems to me that that which disrupts relations between Serbs and Croats now is connected to the genocide which was perpetrated against the Serbian people by [the Croatian Ustashe regime]. . . . We can conclude that this hiding of genocide represents an appeal to history for a repeat. . . ."87 Thus, "Serbs are the people who are constantly exposed to genocide."88

Serbia's mobilization of Croatian Serbs started with an unsuccessful attempt to organize a meeting of solidarity in Knin with Serbs and Montenegrins from Kosovo. Belgrade inundated the Knin gathering with constant messages, and the Serbian Orthodox Church assisted by publishing a text that claimed the situation of Serbs in Croatia was worse than that of Serbs in Kosovo and that such terror would force Serbs to migrate toward the east.96
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More cases, different denominations:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/balkanhr/message/5852

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/balkanhr/message/5264
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PROTEST AGAINST ORTHODOX CHURCH DIGNITARY'S SPEECH AT DJINDJIFUNERAL

20 March 2003

A dark voice from the past was heard at the funeral service of Prime Minister Zoran Djindji- that of the Serbian Orthodox Church. By delegating Metropolitan Amfilohije to officiate and make a speech, the
Serbian Orthodox Church made it clear that it remains firmly entrenched in the positions of the old regime. When he spoke of the Prime Minister as the man who reconciled Serbia with Europe and the rest of the world at the
expense of the dignity of the Serb nation, Metropolitan Amfilohije in effect called on Serbia to renounce the civilized world.
His metaphor of the sword of Pilate's justice hanging over the head of the Serb nation was a criticism of Djindjiand the Serbian government for accepting the international justice system. By speaking only of Serb victims, the
Metropolitan showed a lack of respect for the human dignity of non-Serb victims. And by justifying the assassination of Prime Minister Djindjiby the "hand of fraternal hate," he urged opposition to the rule of law.

In addition to taking advantage of the service to advocate the dark past as the best option for Serbia's future, Metropolitan Amfilohije showed contempt for the dignified way in which Serbia paid its final respects to Prime Minister Djindji.

The Humanitarian Law Center calls on the Serbian Orthodox Church publicly to apologize to the family of the late Prime Minister, the people, and the government of Serbia.
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This was part of Orthodox Greece, Kostas:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,868843,00.html
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With Greece's admiring public, pro-Serbian church, tolerant media and governments that supported Milosevic, Athens was seen as a bolt-hole by the now disgraced president. As Bosnian Serb ethnic cleansers torched villages, it was here Milosevic would escape to enjoy the hospitality of Greek politicians. Marko Milosevic, his lascivious smuggler son, declared Greece 'my first home'.

A Dutch documentary investigating Greek complicity in the Serb wars was aired on local television in which a director of the semi-official Athens News Agency, Nikolas Voulelis, admitted to widespread censorship. During the wars the Greek media was fanatically pro-Serb, portraying Yugoslav Muslims as 'infidel Turks' bent on destroying their Orthodox brethren. 'Editorial interference was a given,' he said.

But it was not only hospitality or money that the Greeks offered. Spiritual succour was provided by the Greek Orthodox church which sent priests to the front line (several clerics received bravery medals from Plavsic).

In a step repeated in no other country, Archbishop Serafeim invited the Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic to visit Athens in 1993. At a mass rally attended by prominent politicians, the indicted war criminal proclaimed: 'We have only God and the Greeks on our side.'

Last year, in a 7,000-page report that the Dutch authorities commissioned into the 1995 Srebrenica massacre, Greece was revealed to have sent shipments of light arms and ammunition to the Bosnian Serb army between 1994 and 1995. The report describes how Greek volunteers were implored, in intercepted army telephone conversations, to raise the Greek flag after the town fell. In one, General Ratko Mladic asked that they record the scene on video for propaganda purposes.

Around 100 soldiers are believed to have joined the Greek Volunteer Guard, formed at Mladic's request. The unit, which fought alongside Russians and Ukrainians, was led by Serb officers and had its own insignia - the double-headed eagle of Byzantium. At least four of its members were awarded the White Eagle medal of honour by Karadzic.
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