Posted on 04/10/2005 8:08:48 PM PDT by Leo Carpathian
They are Catholics are they not? The Soviets cared nothing for the Uniate differences between Orthodox and Latins so these full Catholics (unless they claim some mutation) were placed under the Latin Churches until Soviet President Michael Gorbachev allowed these Uniates to reform. The Orthodox Church had nothing to do with it. In fact it was under the Soviets that the Uniates were allowed to reclaim Churches - while the Orthodox were still locked out of theirs.
Same thing happened when the Mongols were running the show. The Orthodox don't learn from their mistakes.
Actually neither of them excommunicated the other.
It's incredible that you keep repeating this lie. Russian princes were ALLIED to the Mongols.
Only one lieing here is your revisionist self.
Wholly Karp!! Dude be not afraid of the Dewey decimal system. It can be your friend.
But then again why bother. It's alot more fun to make up facts to suit an agenda.
No it was not. Being persecuted in the early days and being under state control does not constitute being legally abolished.
The Gorbachev era Soviets allowed the Unates to regroup in the Western Ukraine - while in the Eastern Ukraine and inside Russia the Orthodox Church was still being repressed. Soviet attempt to divide and rule - That is a fact.
A non-circular proof of Sola Scriptura...
That's easy: faith that the New Testament was inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church no more created the New Testament Canon than Newton created the basic principles of physics.
To be included in the Bible, each book had to pass two standards. First, it had to have a history of continuous and widespread approval amongst Christians. Second, it was expected to demonstrate that it had either been written by an apostle or specifically approved by the apostles.
The Muratorian Canon (approximately AD 170) only differs on 4 books. This shows widespread ealy support for the established canon.
The church may bear witness to the canon, but the church did not create the canon. I follow an Apostolic Church. A church founded by the Apostles. The words of the Apostles, inspired by the Holy Spirit, are sufficient for my salvation. I am saved by grace, through faith, for works.
I do not believe I require the Catholic Church or any of its traditions for salvation. If you can, name one teaching or tradition of the Catholic Church (not contained in the Bible) that I require for salvation.
Once you have the Bible as inspired by the Holy Spirit, the rest is easy. But we'll disagree, so I won't continue.
I really do have an open mind about the Catholic Church. However, other than the keys given to Peter, I have yet to see an intersting or believable arguement to support the Catholic Church's claims.
From the book "Stalin's Holy War":
One thing I have to admit - you don't let facts get in the way of your disgusting bigoted agenda.
Communists never allowed any such nonsense as you are expousing.
Are you not aware that Ukrainian Catholics fell under Soviet rule in 1939 when western Ukraine was incorporated into the Soviet Union as part of the Nazi-Soviet Nonaggression Pact? It was liquidated in 1946. The repression of Catholics started immediately in 1939.
Did you even know that western Ukraine was not under bolsheviks/Stalin until 1939?
You are aware that the seat of the Ukrainian Catholic church was in Lviv because Catholics previoulsy had been expelled from Kyiv by tsarist Russia?
And btw, that web site was certainly not complimentary towards the Russian Orthodox church. Did you read it? What were you thinking?
Folks, we all know the sad history of relations between Orthodoxy and Catholicism, from the sack of Constantinople in 1204 to our own blood-soaked 20th century dominated by atheistic communism. The Bolsheviks in Eastern Europe were the enemies of ALL Christians, whatever temporary political favoritism they may have displayed to one Church or another. Please, please, please don't hack away at each other on this unhappy matter, my friends. I am not a peaceful man by nature(God knows) and have strong feelings on this subject myself, but I can't help feeling a certain dark spirit is especially pleased when strong Orthodox and Catholic Christians trade blows with such ferocity. May Our Lord have mercy on all His suffering people.
I knew you were going to say that, that is why I picked it. Let us see you claim it as a biased source now.
And as it stated: The Bolsheviks proved far more successful in promoting nationalist splits within the church than they had with the obnovlentsy; in fact, they turned out to be too successful for their own interests. In order to fracture Russian Orthodoxy from within, the Kremlin encouraged, or at least did not impede, the flourishing of Ukrainian and Belorussian splinter groups such as the Ukrainian Autonomous and the Ukrainian Autocephalous churches. Whereas the former, as the name implies, sought to establish a degree of distance between Muscovite authority and the Orthodox Church in Ukraine, the latter wanted outright ecclesiastical independence from Russian authority.
The communists, strong in backward Ruthenia, attempted to appeal to the Ukrainian element by espousing union with the Soviet Ukraine. In 1935 the communists polled 25 percent of the Ruthenian vote. The elections of 1935 gave only 37 percent of the Ruthenian vote to political parties supporting the Czechoslovak government. The communists, Unified Magyars, and autonomist groups polled 63 percent.
And that attempt lasted what 8 years?
The Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church at the beginning of the 1930s was liquidated.
Now go read a book.
Are you drunk?
It was. You are ignorant.
By making Stalin die?
Relative of Destro?
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