Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

POPE'S DREAM OF UNITING CHRISTIANITY GOES UNFULFILLED (Ukraine - Russia)
Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty | April 8, 2005 | Jeffrey Donovan

Posted on 04/10/2005 8:08:48 PM PDT by Leo Carpathian

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-72 next last
To: Solon

They are Catholics are they not? The Soviets cared nothing for the Uniate differences between Orthodox and Latins so these full Catholics (unless they claim some mutation) were placed under the Latin Churches until Soviet President Michael Gorbachev allowed these Uniates to reform. The Orthodox Church had nothing to do with it. In fact it was under the Soviets that the Uniates were allowed to reclaim Churches - while the Orthodox were still locked out of theirs.


41 posted on 04/11/2005 8:16:53 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
I think Putin is still using the Russian Orthodox Church for corrupt political purposes, and they are still happy to be used since it gives them a monopoly position and a lot of perks.

Same thing happened when the Mongols were running the show. The Orthodox don't learn from their mistakes.

42 posted on 04/12/2005 5:56:07 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ccmay
The Pope and the Patriarch of Constantinople didn't get along and excommunicated each other over this kind of trivia.

Actually neither of them excommunicated the other.

43 posted on 04/12/2005 6:03:09 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: jb6
The catholic invasions of Kieven Russ during the Mongol invasions, when the princes asked their western Christian brothers for help, is a prime example.

It's incredible that you keep repeating this lie. Russian princes were ALLIED to the Mongols.

44 posted on 04/12/2005 6:06:38 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Ethan Clive Osgoode

Only one lieing here is your revisionist self.


45 posted on 04/12/2005 6:40:48 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth == Christ)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Destro
In fact it was under the Soviets that the Uniates were allowed to reclaim Churches - while the Orthodox were still locked out of theirs.

Wholly Karp!! Dude be not afraid of the Dewey decimal system. It can be your friend.

But then again why bother. It's alot more fun to make up facts to suit an agenda.

46 posted on 04/12/2005 7:20:14 AM PDT by Solon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: A. Pole
It was abolished & outlawed

No it was not. Being persecuted in the early days and being under state control does not constitute being legally abolished.

47 posted on 04/12/2005 7:37:43 AM PDT by Solon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Solon

The Gorbachev era Soviets allowed the Unates to regroup in the Western Ukraine - while in the Eastern Ukraine and inside Russia the Orthodox Church was still being repressed. Soviet attempt to divide and rule - That is a fact.


48 posted on 04/12/2005 7:49:30 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Miles the Slasher

A non-circular proof of Sola Scriptura...

That's easy: faith that the New Testament was inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church no more created the New Testament Canon than Newton created the basic principles of physics.

To be included in the Bible, each book had to pass two standards. First, it had to have a history of continuous and widespread approval amongst Christians. Second, it was expected to demonstrate that it had either been written by an apostle or specifically approved by the apostles.

The Muratorian Canon (approximately AD 170) only differs on 4 books. This shows widespread ealy support for the established canon.

The church may bear witness to the canon, but the church did not create the canon. I follow an Apostolic Church. A church founded by the Apostles. The words of the Apostles, inspired by the Holy Spirit, are sufficient for my salvation. I am saved by grace, through faith, for works.

I do not believe I require the Catholic Church or any of its traditions for salvation. If you can, name one teaching or tradition of the Catholic Church (not contained in the Bible) that I require for salvation.

Once you have the Bible as inspired by the Holy Spirit, the rest is easy. But we'll disagree, so I won't continue.

I really do have an open mind about the Catholic Church. However, other than the keys given to Peter, I have yet to see an intersting or believable arguement to support the Catholic Church's claims.


49 posted on 04/12/2005 7:52:06 AM PDT by Tao Yin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: A. Pole
And where those Soviets found so many atheistic soldiers, which were committed so many crimes?

The difference is that in 1953 when Polish bishops started to submit to communists and their main leader cardinal Wyszynski was imprisoned (same way as patriarch Tichon) STALIN DIED AND LIBERALIZATION STARTED. This is what saved Polish Church.

Once again, the Soviets saved our asses!
50 posted on 04/12/2005 8:33:31 AM PDT by Lukasz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Solon
History is more complex than you admit. The Communists first allowed the "Uniate" and "Ukranian Nationalist" Churches as a tool to fight the Russian Orthodox Church. Stalin, in his paranoid state then ended the policy. Gorbachev re-insatated the "Uniates" as a show of religous tolerance while the Orthodox proper were still repressed.

From the book "Stalin's Holy War":

The Bolsheviks proved far more successful in promoting nationalist splits within the church than they had with the obnovlentsy; in fact, they turned out to be too successful for their own interests. In order to fracture Russian Orthodoxy from within, the Kremlin encouraged, or at least did not impede, the flourishing of Ukrainian and Belorussian splinter groups such as the Ukrainian Autonomous and the Ukrainian Autocephalous churches. Whereas the former, as the name implies, sought to establish a degree of distance between Muscovite authority and the Orthodox Church in Ukraine, the latter wanted outright ecclesiastical independence from Russian authority. Both of these splinter movements quickly attracted enthusiastic adherents, soon becoming foci of Ukrainian nationalism and thus a barrier against the policies of rigid centralization promoted by Stalin as he consolidated his power during the late 1920s. As one historian of religion in Eastern Europe notes, "the greater the ethnic heterogeneity of a society, the more threatening the nationally linked religious organs will be to illegitimate regimes."[59] Stalin therefore ordered these churches closed and their priests arrested. The demons of non-Soviet nationalism proved much easier to summon up than to exorcise, however; when Soviet power in the western borderlands would be smashed by the Nazi invasion of 1941, these two Ukrainian churches, and their Belorussian counterpart, would reappear to haunt Moscow.

51 posted on 04/12/2005 9:13:50 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Destro
The Communists first allowed the "Uniate" and "Ukranian Nationalist" Churches as a tool to fight the Russian Orthodox Church

One thing I have to admit - you don't let facts get in the way of your disgusting bigoted agenda.

Communists never allowed any such nonsense as you are expousing.

Are you not aware that Ukrainian Catholics fell under Soviet rule in 1939 when western Ukraine was incorporated into the Soviet Union as part of the Nazi-Soviet Nonaggression Pact? It was liquidated in 1946. The repression of Catholics started immediately in 1939.

Did you even know that western Ukraine was not under bolsheviks/Stalin until 1939?

You are aware that the seat of the Ukrainian Catholic church was in Lviv because Catholics previoulsy had been expelled from Kyiv by tsarist Russia?

And btw, that web site was certainly not complimentary towards the Russian Orthodox church. Did you read it? What were you thinking?

52 posted on 04/12/2005 2:49:11 PM PDT by Solon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum; Leo Carpathian; Destro; AlbionGirl

Folks, we all know the sad history of relations between Orthodoxy and Catholicism, from the sack of Constantinople in 1204 to our own blood-soaked 20th century dominated by atheistic communism. The Bolsheviks in Eastern Europe were the enemies of ALL Christians, whatever temporary political favoritism they may have displayed to one Church or another. Please, please, please don't hack away at each other on this unhappy matter, my friends. I am not a peaceful man by nature(God knows) and have strong feelings on this subject myself, but I can't help feeling a certain dark spirit is especially pleased when strong Orthodox and Catholic Christians trade blows with such ferocity. May Our Lord have mercy on all His suffering people.


53 posted on 04/12/2005 3:25:47 PM PDT by infidel dog (nearer my God to thee....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Solon
And btw, that web site was certainly not complimentary towards the Russian Orthodox church. Did you read it? What were you thinking?

I knew you were going to say that, that is why I picked it. Let us see you claim it as a biased source now.

And as it stated: The Bolsheviks proved far more successful in promoting nationalist splits within the church than they had with the obnovlentsy; in fact, they turned out to be too successful for their own interests. In order to fracture Russian Orthodoxy from within, the Kremlin encouraged, or at least did not impede, the flourishing of Ukrainian and Belorussian splinter groups such as the Ukrainian Autonomous and the Ukrainian Autocephalous churches. Whereas the former, as the name implies, sought to establish a degree of distance between Muscovite authority and the Orthodox Church in Ukraine, the latter wanted outright ecclesiastical independence from Russian authority.

54 posted on 04/12/2005 4:39:57 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: Solon
From: Czech Republic Conflict in Subcarpathian Ruthenia

The communists, strong in backward Ruthenia, attempted to appeal to the Ukrainian element by espousing union with the Soviet Ukraine. In 1935 the communists polled 25 percent of the Ruthenian vote. The elections of 1935 gave only 37 percent of the Ruthenian vote to political parties supporting the Czechoslovak government. The communists, Unified Magyars, and autonomist groups polled 63 percent.

55 posted on 04/12/2005 5:05:33 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: Destro
You just don't get it. Those churches are not Catholic.

And that attempt lasted what 8 years?

The Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church at the beginning of the 1930s was liquidated.

Now go read a book.

56 posted on 04/12/2005 6:16:26 PM PDT by Solon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: Destro
What are you talking about?

Are you drunk?

57 posted on 04/12/2005 6:17:57 PM PDT by Solon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: Solon
No it was not. Being persecuted in the early days and being under state control does not constitute being legally abolished.

It was. You are ignorant.

58 posted on 04/12/2005 6:47:37 PM PDT by A. Pole (The Law of Comparative Advantage: "Americans should not have children and should not go to college")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Lukasz
Once again, the Soviets saved our asses!

By making Stalin die?

59 posted on 04/12/2005 6:48:41 PM PDT by A. Pole (The Law of Comparative Advantage: "Americans should not have children and should not go to college")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: A. Pole
So a persecuted state church equates to being legally abolished in your mind.

Relative of Destro?

60 posted on 04/12/2005 7:39:10 PM PDT by Solon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-72 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson