Posted on 07/18/2005 11:33:59 AM PDT by zzen01
HOUSTON, July 17 - Where the Beers of the World kiosk once dispensed suds to rowdy N.B.A. fans, volunteers were handing out church literature on Sunday. And where Patricia Davis, 38, once saw ZZ Top in concert, she now plans to worship. Skip to next paragraph Enlarge This Image Jessica Kourkounis/Associated Press
Members of the Lakewood Church, the nation's largest, Saturday night at the first service in their new home.
"I was saved from that," Ms. Davis said last week, sitting near the old three-point line at the 16,000-seat arena here that is now her church's new home. "With the waterfalls," she said, "this really feels like a sanctuary."
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Now that post I agree with. Jesus wrote it :)
if you first tell me what it means in EVERY PERSON'S LIFE to take up their cross and follow Jesus
How would I know that? Everyone is different and has different sins they must deal with.
Since you are working to determine who isn't "really saved", then you HAVE TO tell them where they're lacking.
Seriously, this isnt some back/forth game I got going with you, the attitude you have is that I'm trying to pin you to the wall and your use of cap's is not only annoying to try and read but ineffective at highlighting what you are saying.
Once again, I refuse to answer questions in which you are inferring me to be some judge. I am not and have never said I am.
If you didnt realize it, quoting scripture than discussing it is actually quite good. It proves and shows you can relate your thoughts to God and can prove/mean what you say according to Gods Truth.
When you stated there was a false standard to live by. I simply provided to you what Gods standard is. He states it rather clearly in Luke....those are the words of Jesus.
Give me what your standard is...tell me so that I may learn. Dont hide it from me.
Christians that dont understand why they believe can not properly accept the grace he's given. If Christians do not understand what the grace is based on how is it they can be fully thankful and appreciative of it?
waiting patiently here for further discussion...or Freepmail me if you wish.
Romans 2 was written by Paul.
Luke 9:23 was Jesus words.
1 Cr 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Cr 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Do me a huge favor and tell me how it is I'm "clouding" the Gospel.
Thats a terrible thing to say.
It reminds me of the appeal of childrens' TV shows like Barney and Mister Rogers. I used to wonder why such banal shows appealed to kids, and my wife suggested that kids who do not hear many kind words of gentle tones of voice probably responded to Mister Rogers and Barney because of their gentleness and love. I think Osteen reaches adults in a similar way.
His non-confrontational approach leads to embarrassments like that Larry King interview. Last night, a local news channel here in Houston was doing a profile on Joel on the occasion of the opening of the new Lakewood Church in what used to be the Compaq Center. The interviewer asked him why he did not make a stand on issues like abortion, homosexuality, etc. He said something to the effect that he was opposed to those things, and hoped to convince people there are other ways, but that he wants to be very inclusive.
Again, he will probably not appeal to people who have been in a family of faith for a long time, or who are familiar with the Bible and Christianity, but I think he does help steer lost some souls in the right direction.
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Waterfalls do not belong in a church.
The New Testament calls true disciples to discern truth and to judge everything according to His Word...The popular "judge not" spirituality is something different than the true faith Christians are called to. Jesus made judgements throughout His earthly ministry and requires His followers to do the same.
Joel Osteen does not have any theological/seminary training and his inability to communicate the Gospel on Larry King Live to a national audience may be forgiven, if there is true repentance, but should draw questions in regard to his fitness to be in a Christian pulpit.
Osteen was either ignorant of the Gospel, ashamed of the Gospel, or purposely leading people astray from the Gospel...That is a disqualification as a preacher of God's Word and shepherd of the flock.
He espoused universalism to a national audience...completely unacceptable for the serious calling of a Christian Pastor!!!!
WE'RE WINNING!!!!!!!!
BTW, I believe it is milquetoast, not milktoast.
Christianity is never winning when the message of Jesus Christ is badly distorted or outright heresy is preached. Big numbers mean nothing. Let some persecutions and trials come into the lives of these people on account of their faith in Jesus Christ, and we'll see how real their faith is, and that brings us right back to Osteen on Larry King - his belief is weak when he gets put on the spot to stand up for the Christian faith.
In addition, Osteen teaches what I call a "meology" in that his total focus is building people's egos up by telling them they're not that bad. It's all about "me."
He's had to recently issue an apology after his appearance on Larry King, where he skated around a direct question as to whether Jesus was the only way to heaven, offended his core supporters.
He's nothing more than Norman Vincent Peale reincarnated.
That thing has "Ichabod" written all over it.
Let's see. That's three references to yourself and what you want, which underscores the fact that Osteen preaches a "me-centered" gospel, about what "we" can get out of it.
It's the gospel of "me."
Bingo!
What does that matter today?
Most churches today teach that discipleship is so easy that salvation is cheapened and baptism has lost its meaning. I would be willing to bet that the majority of those who have been baptized in America in the past 20 years aren't living a life that exemplifies a changed heart.
Then his wife got on stage and started leading worship. I felt the spirit of performance. Like watching a cleaned up Mariah Carrey.
Your statement has a major contradiciton in that if Mr. Osteen has "the Holy Spirit working in him," then why would he allow a "spirit of performance" or "a cleaned up Mariah Carrey?"
(By the way, the song leader is not his wife. They both just happen to be bleached blondes.)
Sorry, but the "I'm okay, you're okay" mantra is not the "simple gospel message," but rather some bad remake of a Stuart Smiley skit.
In a $95,000,000 one they do!
But the Kingdom is losing.
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