Posted on 07/25/2005 7:24:38 PM PDT by jec1ny
Still, you give the AME and Seventh Day Baptist churches a chance, and those incredibly prudish Middle Eastern populations may well fall in line.
On the other hand they "spread" their religion through voluntary conversions using the same techniques as Christians (missionaries, missions, public assistance) ~ and they "spread" through procreative enterprise!
They also have a history of "spreading" where government is very corrupt because they do offer Sharia Law. We can laugh at Sharia, but the fact is it's a big step up from what passes for justice in most of the world.
Even in the earliest times they got enormous numbers of volunteers in areas formerly under the sway of Gnostic systems, in places overwhelmed with unemployed "hermit monks", and just about anyplace else where the local Church governance was totally corrupt.
The conversion of formerly Mithrist Persia to Islam had virtually no violence, although there was violence in the overthrow of the government. Mithrism disappeared overnight.
Amazingly, Moslems converted the invading Buddhist Mongols through peaceful means, even as they were being militarily conquered. Ain't nothin' to laugh at! (Which, BTW, is what Professor Jwadeh, the world's foremost expert in Kurdish politics, history and culture used to say at the end of that particular lecture. Being located in Southern Indiana for so many years, I always figured he'd picked that up from the Stonies).
"Well, for you...the Stonies."
I have heard that in post Saddam Iraq, thousands of Muslims are literally throwing their copies of the Koran in the Tigris these days.
Good riddance.
Saddam suppressed Islam to a degree. The Shi'ites hadn't had a good "thrashing" for many years, and that's the first thing they did once we'd liberated them.
Why? The Ottoman Turks conquered Constantinople fair and and square. The Hagia Sophia was theirs to dispose of as they saw fit. I'm glad they didn't raze it.
For intellectual honesty, however, I need to sign this one, since I have believed the same thing since I was a child.
A.M.D.G.
" There are many folks in Iraq who want to be thought of as modern, civilized people."
Sort of the same as in Turkey when Ataturk was around?
I do not attempt to judge why these people in Iraq are turning their backs on Islam. I'm just enormously relieved to hear that they are doing so.
Now if we could just get those Amsterdam and Deerborn Muslims to urinate on the Koran, now that would be progress. God speed the day!
Indeed there are, although I note your pathetic dishonesty in lumping mosques and synagogues together.
All the ones that were originally churches, or church sites, before the animals-on-two-legs invaded the peninsula.
Actually, if you could just get the United Methodist Church's gaggle of Bishops to do that, we'd be seeing some progress eh?!
There is an element of truth here, as the Iberian caliphs were considered renegades by the "true believers" in the Levant, and way too comfortable in the isolation distance provided them. There were many attempted invasions by the "true believers" to set them straight.
Unfortunately, even the "benign" Andalusian masters never ceased reminding the locals who was master and who was servant.
I believe it's in India and Kosovo that they are into the old "tear it down to purify the ground" sort of thing. Total foolishness if you ask me, and all it does is anger people.
In Spain the Moslems pretty much left sound buildings alone and added minarets. The same happened in Siciliy. As these facilities reverted to Christian use, in many cases the minarets were left standing as exemplars of fine architecture.
In the case of one massive mosque in Spain, the Christians simply built a small church on the inside.
Something to think about is where "conversion" has been done as a matter of law (pursuant to conquest), the members of the "new" church were also the members of the "old" church, and they're going to end up paying for whatever modifications are made to the buildings. It's only rational to minimize these things as much as possible.
Now that would be progress! "Actually, if [we] could just get the United Methodist Church's gaggle of Bishops to [urinate on the Koran], we'd be seeing some progress.."
Maybe the position of the UMC bishops might explain why Dubbya the Methodist is so wishy washy about Islam. The things he says about that religion are really absurd.
Please don't get me wrong. I like our President. But I think he's kidding himself as to Islam. And I think even Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld is overly optimistic as to this thing going on for possibly as much as another twelve years. TWELVE WHOLE YEARS? This thing started in A.D. 732. And he thinks we'll win it in twelve years? Good luck with that!
An Orthodox ping.
"I think that you underestimate the significance of returning Hagia Sophia to the Orthodox Church."
Correction: Not to the Orthodox Church but to the EP.
And I think you overestimate the importance of the EP to the Church. And I also opine that if you think Orthodox Christians are going to pony up for a white elephant like Hagia Sophia, you're wrong. I for one will not do so.
The Turks should be forced to restore all of the icons at Hagia Sophia and they should also be forced to maintain the building from now until doomsday. They took it and so they are responsible for it.
I was there in March and it looks truly awful. All the mosques are gorgeous and so well kept. The Hagia Sophia is dusty and dirty and looks terrible. I think it's such a shame.
I prefer it be given to the Southern Baptists. They have a history of being able to fill up such a large building every Sunday, sometimes 2 and 3 times!
There's probably a better chance of asking them to restore the Emperor.
LOL
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