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Orthodoxy and Creationism
Holy Trinity Orthodox Mission ^ | Fr. Deacon Andrey Kuraev

Posted on 09/30/2005 1:35:58 PM PDT by jb6

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To: jb6

All of those scientists I just listed believed in literal creation with no evolution involved.


21 posted on 09/30/2005 2:54:53 PM PDT by SmartCitizen
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To: Antonello
Who says Adam and Eve weren't real? In your rush to criticize God for using a writing style you disapprove of, you overlook that He isn't limited by your logical confines. However He chose to create life, and with it man, He held absolute power to instill the soul of His children into the physical shells any way He wished. I know I am no one to tell Him He couldn't do it in any particular way.

Which is it? Are A&E real or allegory? Choose. Then, we can discuss how the language of Genesis says what it says.

22 posted on 09/30/2005 2:56:38 PM PDT by SmartCitizen
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To: marron
The Bible reveals to us that God did certain things; science attempts to figure out "how" he did it.

Define "science" in your remark. Should a Christian put his trust in an atheistic evolutionary scientist who works on the presupposition that there is no God, and therefore all of subsequent discoveries will have naturalistic explanations? Is this type of "science" part of what you consider to be reliable science?

23 posted on 09/30/2005 3:02:08 PM PDT by SmartCitizen
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To: SmartCitizen
Which is it? Are A&E real or allegory? Choose. Then, we can discuss how the language of Genesis says what it says.

Ask God, as I suggested earlier.

I technically don't know for certain, but I can tell you what I believe based on the answer I got from Him when I did. He created the Earth, and all living things including the animal of man, and instilled into that animal the soul of His children, starting with Adam and Eve.

But pray for yourself. His answer to you would very likely be tailored to what He knows your understanding can accommodate.

24 posted on 09/30/2005 3:05:16 PM PDT by Antonello
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To: SmartCitizen
Theistic evolution is an oxymoron. No one who reads scripture only can come to a evoultionary conclusion. Only people whose minds have been poisoned by the natural (read: atheistic) sciences can come to this belief system. It's like mixing oil and water - the two don't mix. One is truth, one is a lie.

The darwinists developed their theory on the assumption that God does not exist, and excuse me if I place no stock in the theories of people who God calls fools in His scripture.

25 posted on 09/30/2005 3:06:41 PM PDT by SmartCitizen
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To: Antonello
I technically don't know for certain, but I can tell you what I believe based on the answer I got from Him when I did. He created the Earth, and all living things including the animal of man, and instilled into that animal the soul of His children, starting with Adam and Eve.

Any answer to prayer that conflicts with Scripure is not from God.

26 posted on 09/30/2005 3:07:50 PM PDT by SmartCitizen
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To: SmartCitizen
Now here some contemporary with Darwin who didn't buy his crappy theory: Lord Kelvin (has his own temperrature scale), James Maxwell (physics - kinetic theory of gases), John Ambrose Fleming (pioneered electronics), joseph Lister (antiseptic surgery), and Louis Pasteur (heard of him?). In addition, 717 scientists (including 86 members of the Royal Society) signed a manifesto called "The Declaration of Students of teh natural and Physical Sciences" in 1864 that affirmed their confidence in the bile's scientific integrity.

Welp, that settles it for me, God is not powerful enough to make Evolution. Protestantism wins.

27 posted on 09/30/2005 3:10:37 PM PDT by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: Antonello

What did Jesus mean when He said: "But at the beginning of creation, God made them male and female." Mark 10:6 NIV. Can you please parse that for me. What does Jesus mean by "at the beginning of creation"? What does He meann by male and female? Did God create troglidites or hominids or something?


28 posted on 09/30/2005 3:10:53 PM PDT by SmartCitizen
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To: SmartCitizen

Just out of curiosity, did you bother to read the article? I think not.


29 posted on 09/30/2005 3:10:58 PM PDT by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: jb6

Tell me: What is the evidence in Genesis for evolution? There isn't a shred. You are reading naturalistic science into the bible. That is called eisegesis.


30 posted on 09/30/2005 3:11:58 PM PDT by SmartCitizen
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To: Antonello

You don't get it, being a none protestant (to include the Lutherins) you don't belong to a Christian faith.


31 posted on 09/30/2005 3:11:59 PM PDT by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: jb6

I read enough of it to get the gist of it. It's a weak attempt to justify theistic evolution. Gosh, how did the church fathers get by without theistic evolution. Man had to wait for an atheist like Darwin to come along and discover it. Does that makes sense to you?


32 posted on 09/30/2005 3:13:29 PM PDT by SmartCitizen
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To: jb6

Oy. Bookmarked for later reading.


33 posted on 09/30/2005 3:14:17 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: SmartCitizen
I read enough of it to get the gist of it. It's a weak attempt to justify theistic evolution.

Then I'd say you probably didn't get much past the first two paragraphs, as one there is nothing weak about it and two it is Scriptural. Oh and by the way, not only did Darwin have a degree in theology, he wasn't an atheist, but that's a side point.

34 posted on 09/30/2005 3:15:56 PM PDT by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: SmartCitizen
Gosh, how did the church fathers get by without theistic evolution. Man had to wait for an atheist like Darwin to come along and discover it. Does that makes sense to you?

I'm still trying to figure out how they got by without the Einstionian theory of Gravity....or the Laws of the Conservation of Mass and Energy.

35 posted on 09/30/2005 3:17:23 PM PDT by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: SmartCitizen

Read the article and learn.


36 posted on 09/30/2005 3:17:52 PM PDT by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: SmartCitizen
Now here some contemporary with Darwin who didn't buy his crappy theory: Lord Kelvin (has his own temperrature scale), James Maxwell (physics - kinetic theory of gases), John Ambrose Fleming (pioneered electronics), joseph Lister (antiseptic surgery), and Louis Pasteur (heard of him?).

But all of those men believed in the scientific method and acted as scientists. People who try to cram faith into science (such as Creationists) do not.

37 posted on 09/30/2005 3:24:31 PM PDT by Zeroisanumber
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To: SmartCitizen
Any answer to prayer that conflicts with Scripure is not from God.

I don't think you or I have the authority to dictate to God what He is allowed to tell someone. Besides, we are talking about clarifying meaning, not overruling what is written. You are inflating your personal distaste of the possibility that God may have used alliteration (apparently without checking with you first to see if you would allow Him to do so) into an empty argument that He is not allowed to even help someone understand what He meant.

38 posted on 09/30/2005 3:27:20 PM PDT by Antonello
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To: SmartCitizen
What did Jesus mean when He said: "But at the beginning of creation, God made them male and female." Mark 10:6 NIV. Can you please parse that for me. What does Jesus mean by "at the beginning of creation"? What does He meann by male and female? Did God create troglidites or hominids or something?

Okay, I'll parse it out. Please understand that this is my own personal interpretation, and by no means am I asking or even expecting you to accept it as correct.

But at the beginning of creation, God made them male and female.
God instilled the souls of Adam and Eve into their bodies, as the first man and first woman of the creation of the physical existence of Man.

What does Jesus mean by "at the beginning of creation"?
In this context, He meant the creation of the physical existence of God's children upon the Earth.

What does He meann by male and female?
That Adam was made male and Eve was made female.

Did God create troglidites or hominids or something?
Yes. And birds, fish, trees, mushrooms, and those annoying little gnat-things that buzz in your ear.

39 posted on 09/30/2005 3:37:38 PM PDT by Antonello
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To: jb6
You don't get it, being a none protestant (to include the Lutherins) you don't belong to a Christian faith.

And yet I am more willing and interested in developing a deep understanding of the Bible than you. All I suggested to you was to pray about it. Do you not believe in inspiration through prayer?

40 posted on 09/30/2005 3:40:39 PM PDT by Antonello
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