Reception of Converts and Profession of Faith (into the Catholic Church)

Pontifications ^ | March 17, 2006

[NYer]

I, N.N., ______ years of age, born outside the Catholic Church, have held and believed errors contrary to her teaching. Now, enlightened by divine grace, I kneel before you, Reverend Father _____________, having before my eyes and touching with my hand the holy Gospels. And with firm faith I believe and profess each and all the articles contained in the Apostles’ Creed, that is: I believe in God, the Father almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; He descended into hell, the third day He arose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty, from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy Catholic Church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

I admit and embrace most firmly the apostolic and ecclesiastical traditions and all the other constitutions and prescriptions of the Church.

I admit the Sacred Scriptures according to the sense which has been held and is held by Holy Mother Church, whose duty it is to judge the true sense and interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures, and I shall never accept or interpret them except according to the unanimous consent of the Fathers.

I profess that the sacraments of the New Law are, truly and precisely, seven in number, instituted for the salvation of mankind, though all are not necessary for each individual: Baptism, Confirmation, Holy Eucharist, Penance, Extreme Unction, Holy Orders, and Matrimony. I profess that all confer grace, and that of these Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders cannot be repeated without sacrilege.

I also accept and admit the ritual of the Catholic Church in the solemn administration of all the above mentioned Sacraments.

I accept and hold, in each and every part, all that has been defined and declared by the Sacred Council of Trent concerning Original Sin and Justification. I profess that in the Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist is really, truly and substantially the Body and Blood together with the Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that there takes place what the Church calls transubstantiation, that is, the change of all the substance of the bread into the Body of Christ and of all the substance of wine into the Blood. I confess also that in receiving under either of these species one receives Jesus Christ, whole and entire.

I firmly hold that Purgatory exists and that the souls detained there can be helped by the prayers of the faithful. Likewise I hold that the saints, who reign with Jesus Christ, should be venerated and invoked, that they offer prayers to God for us and that their relics are to be venerated.

I firmly profess that the images of Jesus Christ and of the Mother of God, ever Virgin, as well as of all the saints, should be given due honor and veneration. I also affirm that Jesus Christ left to the Church the faculty to grant indulgences, and that their use is most salutary to the Christian people. I recognize the Holy, Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church as the mother and teacher of all the churches, and I promise and swear true obedience to the Roman Pontiff, successor of St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles and Vicar of Jesus Christ.

Besides I accept, without hesitation, and profess all that has been handed down, defined, and declared by the Sacred Canons and by the general Councils, especially by the Sacred Council of Trent and by the Vatican General Council, and in a special manner concerning the primacy and infallibility of the Roman Pontiff. At the same time I condemn and reprove all that the Church has condemned and reproved. This same Catholic Faith, outside of which nobody can be saved, I now freely profess and to which I truly adhere, the same I promise and swear to maintain and profess with the help of God, entire, inviolate and with firm constancy until the last breath of life; and I shall strive, as far as possible, that this same Faith shall be held, taught, and publicly professed by all who depend on me and by those of whom I shall have charge.

So help me God and these holy Gospels.

Roman Ritual (1944), Supplement for North America

[Flavius Josephus]

You mean like the catechist that said that the Holy Spirit is the feminine part of the Trinity? Or the Pastor that said that the conservatives were narrow minded and bigoted?

I haven't joined this parish, and I don't think I'm going to ever do so. But I do like a lot of the people, and I want to marry and it is a big parish and I hoped I might meet someone there. But I intend to belong somewhere else.

[jo kus]

"It's not our job to teach you how to pray. It's not the schools job. It's the parents job"

When if a person is raised in a household that had parents who were either not practising their faith, or had no faith to begin with? I am seeing this in a number of catechumens. Our culture is finding acceptance in agnosticism and atheisism...

Regards

[jo kus]

You mean like the catechist that said that the Holy Spirit is the feminine part of the Trinity? Or the Pastor that said that the conservatives were narrow minded and bigoted?

Yuck...Yep. It is good to hear that the Spirit sent the alarms off inside so you noted that it didn't sound right. Again, they are a result of the culture they live in. Pray and set a good example - and defend the faith - is all we can do for such. I definitely wouldn't associate with this church on a weekly basis. If you have friends there, continue to meet them - and expound on the greatness of the faith and how good "St. Francis" down the street because they are really teaching the Catholic faith, rather than "a shadow" of itself, a veritable cafeteria where one picks and chooses what God revealed to mankind.

I hope you are able to find a more conservative church. IF you do continue to use the liberal church as the basis of your socializing, you can still be a conservative influence that can evangelize IF you are able to always love - even if people are acting pecularily un-Catholic. Your good example and your conservative beliefs that people will be aware that you have will be a clear call for these liberal Catholics to return home.

Regards

[Brytani]

The more I think about my RCIA class the more frustrated I've become. The frustration didn't start with this discussion but has been building for a while.

My Church is very VERY big into RCIA. We are treated incredibly well by all our priests, the congregation and during all Masses. The community comes together to make us feel very welcome and wanted. There is little beating around the bush during mass when it comes to subjects some may find controversial. None of our 3 priests shy away from any subject and when I check the Catechism after mass to see what is in it, our priests are on target.

My RCIA process was an experience I will never forget and do cherish having gone through it. Yet, the more I think about the process the more I realize a good part of the blame does lay at our directors feet. She's in her 19th year of being the RCIA director. She's even more burned out this year than last. She's getting up in age and well, she probably should consider finding someone to replace her.

It's funny that you mention a RCIA members sponsor should be the one teaching Scripture, praying and walking the Christian life. During my entire RCIA process I saw my sponsor on Sundays only and that was the only time we talked. Not one time outside of RCIA class. We've talked, outside of seeing her at Mass, twice since Easter Vigil.

Some would say that's a good think considering what I've brought about her feelings on abortion however, it does distress me. I had high hopes of having a sponsor who would help guide me in my faith.

As a side note I just thought about another bit of information that would be valuable to new converts. What are the protocols of the Church? As example...

I'm currently having a moral dilemma. In some instances I believe that the death penalty is warranted. An example of that instance is when a person is convicted of murder, sentenced to life without parole and while doing their prison sentence they murder another inmate or prison guard/nurse etc. My feeling is that we gave that person another chance at life, a chance he/she didn't give to their victim. Once they kill again, they have given up that right to have another life.

Now, how/where do I go to get this issue resolved within me? I see our priests, one on one, a few times a month during confession. I am not sure if this is the appropriate place to bring that up. So who do I go to?

I had two fears when I made the decision to accept Christ died for my sins and to accept the Catholic Church as a large part of my life.

The first fear was a simple one. I was going to try and live a life following a perfect person. A person who didn't sin. A person who was God brought to earth. There is no way I can live up to 1/16 of Jesus, yet I was going to try. That to me was scary.

The second part of that was going into a Church that has been around for 2000 years, has incredible amounts of history and what still seems to me to be a ritual or tradition for every act of a person's life. Trying to learn those traditions and the rituals of the Church bothered me. I didn't want to become a CEO Catholic (Christmas and Easter only) so I took my conversion of with the same amount of responsibility as I would with a child or my career. It was to become as important a part of my life and one I must dedicate myself to if I wanted to grow.

I still find myself running around trying to figure out things. I would have found it helpful during RCIA if we had been directed on where to go for help with issues. What is proper and what isn't. Before every mass announcements are made telling about various ministries, study groups, prayer groups etc. Yet some of the ministries that are mentioned, I've never heard of!!

I realize I'm rambling on about this WAY to much but like I said at the beginning of this post, I am frustrated.

Thanks for the book suggestion, I'll see if my Church bookstore has it since I prefer to give them money over Amazon etc. If they don't I will definitely search it out.

Thanks again, this conversation has been incredibly illuminating for me and a pleasure to be involved in.

[Brytani]

I'm in the same boat as you, though for different reasons. I wonder if we could find a website, along with books that will help us in our Catechist education....

We could also discuss things on here if we can find willing, knowledgeable Catholics to help us out.

What do you think?

[Brytani]

Well isn't that great...My parents are secularist Jews who wouldn't know how to pray if they were on death's door.

Were you even taught the prayers of the Church during RCIA?

Lords Prayer, Our Father, Hail Mary etc?

[jo kus]

Well, you are very fortunate (Brytani) to have a church that is big into RCIA. Some are not. As Flavius mentioned, some priests and directors are quite liberal. Try not to let your experience with your sponsor to sour the rest of it. As to your director, letting go can be hard. Nineteen years is a long time. Many people feel that if they left, the whole process would come to a screeching halt. This can be a difficult situation for getting new people into the system. I don't know if much can be done about it, quite honestly, except to join the RCIA team and act as a counter-weight once you get your foot into the door. This would serve several purposes. First, it would give you an opportunity to do the research and Bible study necessary so that you could lead a Dismissal or something like that. Of course, it would also give you an opportuity to voice your opinion. However, I would be very patient, so you are not ostracized from the very beginning. The best way, I think, to make any such changes to an organization is to become part of it yourself. Change from the outside rarely does any good, and the priest will not lightly cast aside a 19 year veteran without good reason.

As to the sponsors. Again, here is where getting in to RCIA might help future candidates. You could get on the Sponsor team. I have one other helper, and this is what he does. He gives a few classes to them during the year to help them come up with ideas on what they can do with their candidates. It isn't as good as I'd like it, but I think this is also a gradual process. I would like our sponsors to spend at least one day a month OUTSIDE of RCIA functions with their candidates. I stress several times early that the SPONSOR'S job is in some ways MORE IMPORTANT than the catechist's job. Learning doctrines is fine - but learning to walk in Christ and seeing it in action is more important. Most people come to Christ because they saw a devout Christian who was able to overcome persecution or suffering and have joy in the face of this. People then say "Wow, I wish I had that peace of mind...". When our sponsors act like that, it lights a fire under seekers. Thus, the role of sponsor is very important, and usually, under-utilized. We are currently trying to improve this aspect of our own RCIA. Heck, 3 years ago, sponsorship was a joke here. Now, we take it more seriously. Why? Because I got in and put the ideas before the priest. He agreed - and let me run. Sponsors are not expected to do Bible teaching, but they ARE expected to take a person under their wing and show them the practical aspects of being a Catholic of good standing. We list all kinds of things to do with their candidates.

So if you are not happy with your RCIA process, perhaps this is God calling to you to consider joining the team. It is OUR Church, and will only get better when people get involved and use their God-given talents. Perhaps you could volunteer to help with sponsor training - maybe 3 classes per year: the first class to let them know what is expected (and you got to let them know right away this is not - "show up for the rites and that's it"), an Advent and Lent class - to help THEIR spirituality and let them touch bases with you and the others on how they are managing to meet their candidates. Often times, a sponsor will say something which gives ideas to other sponsors on how they can meet or do an activity with their candidate. We REQUIRED a minimum of one meeting per month outside of RCIA AND one meeting in either the class OR a dismissal on Sunday. We expect our sponsors to be SEEN! Sure, we've had a few slackers. But most take it seriously. And over time, we have gotten a couple of repeat volunteers. EVERY single sponsor who is serious (and was coming to the classes) mentioned they learned a lot and were better off for the experience.

Regarding the death penalty, consult the Catechism. The Church frowns on the death penalty here in the US because our system of law is able to take hardened crinimals out of society forever. In the exception you make, a person can be confined or put in a higher security prison. The Church highly regards and respects life. There is an element of "eye for an eye" among everyone - it's not an easy teaching. But God's ways are not our ways... I would find it very difficult if I was close to someone who was murdered.

Don't worry too much about "learning" the faith. You probably know more than 80% of the people in the pews already! Just the fact that you are committed to Christ and have converted from your past life is a sign that you are a huge step beyond the normal nominal Catholic who shows up to Mass but doesn't have a clue on what is happening. Remember, there is 2000 years of history and writings and teachings. You won't get to them all! God will lead you in the direction He wants you to go. Try not to be frustrated about not knowing everything. The following are a few sites I have found helpful. Of course, there are many more, but for brevity's sake, I just listed a few to get you started. It is a life long journey!

http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/index2.htm (a good site for people with questions from the Protestant perspective)

http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/files.htm (another convert's site)

http://scripturecatholic.com/(this site is very extensive with Scripture AND lots of Chruch Fathers quotes that will show how our faith doctrines were present from the beginning)

http://landru.i-link-2.net/shnyves/prayer.html#Texts (EVERYTHING you ever wanted to know about prayer! VERY extensive - this one site could keep you busy for several years!)

http://www.newadvent.org/ (catholic encyclopedia on line)

I hope all of this helps, and thanks again for your feedback.

Brother in Christ

[Flavius Josephus]

I've found a very conservative church to go to when I get finished with the process I'm on. They won't even mention the name at St. Annes.

NYer gave me a good exposition a couple of weeks ago about why pre-VCIIers are the way they are. I feel like I understand them better now. I'm a big proponent of the Traditional Latin Mass, but not the way it was done before VCII. No wonder so many people left, if they were expected to kneel with their rosaries and not say anything, not do anything (except receive, if permitted), and not even get to sing anything. I see an opportunity now, with perspective, to remake the TLM into something more glorious than ever, not by changing the Mass, but by saying and singing it with the gusto that comes from congregational engagement and involvement.

[Flavius Josephus]

MWere you even taught the prayers of the Church during RCIA?

No. No prayers of the church. Somebody comes up front at the beginning, and sometimes at the end, and reads a prayer (or meditation) that they either wrote, or found somewhere. They never say. Sometimes they even pray in the Name of Jesus.

[Flavius Josephus]

I'm game. I've learned a lot from people like Salvation and NYer, and even met someone who introduced me to people at the conservative church that I will join.

[Brytani]

No. No prayers of the church. Somebody comes up front at the beginning, and sometimes at the end, and reads a prayer (or meditation) that they either wrote, or found somewhere. They never say. Sometimes they even pray in the Name of Jesus.

How sad and unbelievable!!! How did your RCIA director expect you to understand a mass if you didn't know or understand the standard prayers said during them?

You posted earlier that your director didn't think it was her job to teach you to pray, she wasn't kidding. As much as I've complained about our director at least she spent a good deal of time teaching us prayers and ventured into how to pray. She's very big into simply saying, slowly and heartfelt Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.

Actually, I can't think of a single time we met as a group where we didn't being with a prayer and end with a prayer and all were in the Name of Jesus. I should be counting my lucky starts for that compared to your experience...

[Brytani]

I'll start searching the net to see if I can find a good, accurate, Catechism "class" for us. Actually I'm sure there are more former RCIA members as well as cradle Catholics who would be interested in learning.

I'm glad you've found a parish more in-line with your beliefs. I wouldn't have made it through RCIA if a liberal message had been shoved down my throat. Your calling is much greater than mine!!!

[seams2me]

bttt

[seams2me]

for your enjoyment

[jo kus]

I'm a big proponent of the Traditional Latin Mass, but not the way it was done before VCII. No wonder so many people left, if they were expected to kneel with their rosaries and not say anything, not do anything (except receive, if permitted), and not even get to sing anything

I agree the Latin Mass before Vatican 2 was not especially conducive to participation in worship. I have found a few good N.O. Masses, but not many. Most are more like a picnic gathering then Divine Worship. I think this a major part of so many people's indifference. We believe how we pray. If our liturgical worship is like a picnic, then me and Jesus are buddies, rather than He is God and I am a created being totally submissive to Him. That is why there is so little reverance in the church, or during Communion.

Regards

[Brytani]

I'm currently involved with two ministries in our parish. Right to Life and our prison ministry. My secular background is in criminal justice so I was hesitant to go into a prison and preach to convicts. However, our prison ministry also deals with the victims of crime. Helping them heal, forgive, and move on with their lives. I stay to that side of the ministry.

I thought a great deal about working with our RCIA program but for some reason I found no spark in it. Part of that decision I'm sure was knowing I am not ready to teach a convert anything. I am still doing "baby steps" and learning my faith myself. Who knows if later on I'll be more interested.

In RCIA right now we have a young man named Lonnie who is our Directors main assistant. He is a wonderful, pious, loving young man who is so in love with the Church it seems to flow out of him. I'm sure he will take the reigns from our Director when she finally makes the decision to pass the director position on. I hope at that time he's given the responsibility, personally I think he would be wonderful at it, would bring new ideas into the group while sticking to Catholic law and tradition. I can't say enough good about Lonnie, he's a true gift from God.

As for my sponsor she isn't normal for our parish. Other RCIA members would come to me asking me where she was or how often we got together outside of RCIA. They even noticed how my sponsor seemed to be detached from her responsibilities. Another sponsor in our group ended up adopting me in a way and being there when my sponsor wasn't. More than a few times I was invited to her home for bible study or a general get together. I still call her my Step-Godparent. The experience I had with my sponsor was not what others experienced. Jesus has touched the lives and hearts of most people involved in our RCIA program and their take their responsibilities very seriously.

As to the death penalty quandary I know what the Church teaches on the matter. As I said before my background is Criminal Justice so I have more than a passing experience with criminal behavior. Though we have the ability to keep murders in supermax prisons or in conditions where they are in solitary for 23 hours a day, interaction with staff still exists. Especially for medical staff, the danger is still present. Even with attempts to keep dangerous prisoners away from the ability to harm again, it still happens.

See, I didn't believe entering into the Catholic Church meant I could change it's teaching to suit my beliefs. I realize it is my duty to change myself. This issue however is something I do struggle with. I need to pray on this quandary much more than I have been. While it isn't something I think about daily, it has come up when working with our prison ministry.

I pray that one day I'll stop having second thoughts on this issue and confirm to the teachings of the Church I made the decision to join.

Thanks for the site listings. I'm always on the lookout for book suggestion and online sites where I can learn.

[Rhadaghast]

No, you cannot be saved out side of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. The pope said so.

[NYer]

I'll start searching the net to see if I can find a good, accurate, Catechism "class" for us.

I don't think you can do any better than this one.

LINK. It's not cheap but Fr. John Corapi delivers solid catechesis in 48 chapters. You can also watch this for free on EWTN. The program airs on Sundays at 8:00PM EST. This week's program covers EPISODE 37 - THE FOURTH AND FIFTH COMMANDMENTS.

[irishtenor]

Is your reply sincere, or sarcastic?

[Rhadaghast]

yes and no
It was said and maintained by many catholic theologians and Popes. Non of the current teaching has actually come out and countered it. Current teaching has attempted to reframe it, but just like the Counsel of Trent vs Vatican II, it was never refuted by later teaching.

My self: Adopted by God; through Christ's sacrifice; into his body; never catholic; "irressitably ignorant"; completely content.