Posted on 03/17/2006 8:08:08 AM PST by NYer
I, N.N., ______ years of age, born outside the Catholic Church, have held and believed errors contrary to her teaching. Now, enlightened by divine grace, I kneel before you, Reverend Father _____________, having before my eyes and touching with my hand the holy Gospels. And with firm faith I believe and profess each and all the articles contained in the Apostles’ Creed, that is: I believe in God, the Father almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; He descended into hell, the third day He arose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty, from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy Catholic Church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.
I admit and embrace most firmly the apostolic and ecclesiastical traditions and all the other constitutions and prescriptions of the Church.
I admit the Sacred Scriptures according to the sense which has been held and is held by Holy Mother Church, whose duty it is to judge the true sense and interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures, and I shall never accept or interpret them except according to the unanimous consent of the Fathers.
I profess that the sacraments of the New Law are, truly and precisely, seven in number, instituted for the salvation of mankind, though all are not necessary for each individual: Baptism, Confirmation, Holy Eucharist, Penance, Extreme Unction, Holy Orders, and Matrimony. I profess that all confer grace, and that of these Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders cannot be repeated without sacrilege.
I also accept and admit the ritual of the Catholic Church in the solemn administration of all the above mentioned Sacraments.
I accept and hold, in each and every part, all that has been defined and declared by the Sacred Council of Trent concerning Original Sin and Justification. I profess that in the Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist is really, truly and substantially the Body and Blood together with the Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that there takes place what the Church calls transubstantiation, that is, the change of all the substance of the bread into the Body of Christ and of all the substance of wine into the Blood. I confess also that in receiving under either of these species one receives Jesus Christ, whole and entire.
I firmly hold that Purgatory exists and that the souls detained there can be helped by the prayers of the faithful. Likewise I hold that the saints, who reign with Jesus Christ, should be venerated and invoked, that they offer prayers to God for us and that their relics are to be venerated.
I firmly profess that the images of Jesus Christ and of the Mother of God, ever Virgin, as well as of all the saints, should be given due honor and veneration. I also affirm that Jesus Christ left to the Church the faculty to grant indulgences, and that their use is most salutary to the Christian people. I recognize the Holy, Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church as the mother and teacher of all the churches, and I promise and swear true obedience to the Roman Pontiff, successor of St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles and Vicar of Jesus Christ.
Besides I accept, without hesitation, and profess all that has been handed down, defined, and declared by the Sacred Canons and by the general Councils, especially by the Sacred Council of Trent and by the Vatican General Council, and in a special manner concerning the primacy and infallibility of the Roman Pontiff. At the same time I condemn and reprove all that the Church has condemned and reproved. This same Catholic Faith, outside of which nobody can be saved, I now freely profess and to which I truly adhere, the same I promise and swear to maintain and profess with the help of God, entire, inviolate and with firm constancy until the last breath of life; and I shall strive, as far as possible, that this same Faith shall be held, taught, and publicly professed by all who depend on me and by those of whom I shall have charge.
So help me God and these holy Gospels.
Roman Ritual (1944), Supplement for North America
You mean like the catechist that said that the Holy Spirit is the feminine part of the Trinity? Or the Pastor that said that the conservatives were narrow minded and bigoted?
I haven't joined this parish, and I don't think I'm going to ever do so. But I do like a lot of the people, and I want to marry and it is a big parish and I hoped I might meet someone there. But I intend to belong somewhere else.
When if a person is raised in a household that had parents who were either not practising their faith, or had no faith to begin with? I am seeing this in a number of catechumens. Our culture is finding acceptance in agnosticism and atheisism...
Regards
Yuck...Yep. It is good to hear that the Spirit sent the alarms off inside so you noted that it didn't sound right. Again, they are a result of the culture they live in. Pray and set a good example - and defend the faith - is all we can do for such. I definitely wouldn't associate with this church on a weekly basis. If you have friends there, continue to meet them - and expound on the greatness of the faith and how good "St. Francis" down the street because they are really teaching the Catholic faith, rather than "a shadow" of itself, a veritable cafeteria where one picks and chooses what God revealed to mankind.
I hope you are able to find a more conservative church. IF you do continue to use the liberal church as the basis of your socializing, you can still be a conservative influence that can evangelize IF you are able to always love - even if people are acting pecularily un-Catholic. Your good example and your conservative beliefs that people will be aware that you have will be a clear call for these liberal Catholics to return home.
Regards
As to the sponsors. Again, here is where getting in to RCIA might help future candidates. You could get on the Sponsor team. I have one other helper, and this is what he does. He gives a few classes to them during the year to help them come up with ideas on what they can do with their candidates. It isn't as good as I'd like it, but I think this is also a gradual process. I would like our sponsors to spend at least one day a month OUTSIDE of RCIA functions with their candidates. I stress several times early that the SPONSOR'S job is in some ways MORE IMPORTANT than the catechist's job. Learning doctrines is fine - but learning to walk in Christ and seeing it in action is more important. Most people come to Christ because they saw a devout Christian who was able to overcome persecution or suffering and have joy in the face of this. People then say "Wow, I wish I had that peace of mind...". When our sponsors act like that, it lights a fire under seekers. Thus, the role of sponsor is very important, and usually, under-utilized. We are currently trying to improve this aspect of our own RCIA. Heck, 3 years ago, sponsorship was a joke here. Now, we take it more seriously. Why? Because I got in and put the ideas before the priest. He agreed - and let me run. Sponsors are not expected to do Bible teaching, but they ARE expected to take a person under their wing and show them the practical aspects of being a Catholic of good standing. We list all kinds of things to do with their candidates.
So if you are not happy with your RCIA process, perhaps this is God calling to you to consider joining the team. It is OUR Church, and will only get better when people get involved and use their God-given talents. Perhaps you could volunteer to help with sponsor training - maybe 3 classes per year: the first class to let them know what is expected (and you got to let them know right away this is not - "show up for the rites and that's it"), an Advent and Lent class - to help THEIR spirituality and let them touch bases with you and the others on how they are managing to meet their candidates. Often times, a sponsor will say something which gives ideas to other sponsors on how they can meet or do an activity with their candidate. We REQUIRED a minimum of one meeting per month outside of RCIA AND one meeting in either the class OR a dismissal on Sunday. We expect our sponsors to be SEEN! Sure, we've had a few slackers. But most take it seriously. And over time, we have gotten a couple of repeat volunteers. EVERY single sponsor who is serious (and was coming to the classes) mentioned they learned a lot and were better off for the experience.
Regarding the death penalty, consult the Catechism. The Church frowns on the death penalty here in the US because our system of law is able to take hardened crinimals out of society forever. In the exception you make, a person can be confined or put in a higher security prison. The Church highly regards and respects life. There is an element of "eye for an eye" among everyone - it's not an easy teaching. But God's ways are not our ways... I would find it very difficult if I was close to someone who was murdered.
Don't worry too much about "learning" the faith. You probably know more than 80% of the people in the pews already! Just the fact that you are committed to Christ and have converted from your past life is a sign that you are a huge step beyond the normal nominal Catholic who shows up to Mass but doesn't have a clue on what is happening. Remember, there is 2000 years of history and writings and teachings. You won't get to them all! God will lead you in the direction He wants you to go. Try not to be frustrated about not knowing everything. The following are a few sites I have found helpful. Of course, there are many more, but for brevity's sake, I just listed a few to get you started. It is a life long journey!
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/index2.htm (a good site for people with questions from the Protestant perspective)
http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/files.htm (another convert's site)
http://scripturecatholic.com/(this site is very extensive with Scripture AND lots of Chruch Fathers quotes that will show how our faith doctrines were present from the beginning)
http://landru.i-link-2.net/shnyves/prayer.html#Texts (EVERYTHING you ever wanted to know about prayer! VERY extensive - this one site could keep you busy for several years!)
http://www.newadvent.org/ (catholic encyclopedia on line)
I hope all of this helps, and thanks again for your feedback.
Brother in Christ
I've found a very conservative church to go to when I get finished with the process I'm on. They won't even mention the name at St. Annes.
NYer gave me a good exposition a couple of weeks ago about why pre-VCIIers are the way they are. I feel like I understand them better now. I'm a big proponent of the Traditional Latin Mass, but not the way it was done before VCII. No wonder so many people left, if they were expected to kneel with their rosaries and not say anything, not do anything (except receive, if permitted), and not even get to sing anything. I see an opportunity now, with perspective, to remake the TLM into something more glorious than ever, not by changing the Mass, but by saying and singing it with the gusto that comes from congregational engagement and involvement.
No. No prayers of the church. Somebody comes up front at the beginning, and sometimes at the end, and reads a prayer (or meditation) that they either wrote, or found somewhere. They never say. Sometimes they even pray in the Name of Jesus.
I'm game. I've learned a lot from people like Salvation and NYer, and even met someone who introduced me to people at the conservative church that I will join.
How sad and unbelievable!!! How did your RCIA director expect you to understand a mass if you didn't know or understand the standard prayers said during them?
You posted earlier that your director didn't think it was her job to teach you to pray, she wasn't kidding. As much as I've complained about our director at least she spent a good deal of time teaching us prayers and ventured into how to pray. She's very big into simply saying, slowly and heartfelt Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.
Actually, I can't think of a single time we met as a group where we didn't being with a prayer and end with a prayer and all were in the Name of Jesus. I should be counting my lucky starts for that compared to your experience...
I'll start searching the net to see if I can find a good, accurate, Catechism "class" for us. Actually I'm sure there are more former RCIA members as well as cradle Catholics who would be interested in learning.
I'm glad you've found a parish more in-line with your beliefs. I wouldn't have made it through RCIA if a liberal message had been shoved down my throat. Your calling is much greater than mine!!!
bttt
for your enjoyment
I agree the Latin Mass before Vatican 2 was not especially conducive to participation in worship. I have found a few good N.O. Masses, but not many. Most are more like a picnic gathering then Divine Worship. I think this a major part of so many people's indifference. We believe how we pray. If our liturgical worship is like a picnic, then me and Jesus are buddies, rather than He is God and I am a created being totally submissive to Him. That is why there is so little reverance in the church, or during Communion.
Regards
No, you cannot be saved out side of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. The pope said so.
I don't think you can do any better than this one.
LINK. It's not cheap but Fr. John Corapi delivers solid catechesis in 48 chapters. You can also watch this for free on EWTN. The program airs on Sundays at 8:00PM EST. This week's program covers EPISODE 37 - THE FOURTH AND FIFTH COMMANDMENTS.
Is your reply sincere, or sarcastic?
yes and no
It was said and maintained by many catholic theologians and Popes. Non of the current teaching has actually come out and countered it. Current teaching has attempted to reframe it, but just like the Counsel of Trent vs Vatican II, it was never refuted by later teaching.
My self: Adopted by God; through Christ's sacrifice; into his body; never catholic; "irressitably ignorant"; completely content.
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