Catholic Caucus: It's the Church's Bible

CatholicCulture.org ^ | 05-05-06 | by Dr. Jeff Mirus

[Iscool]

KJV-only attacks begin in 5-4-3-2...

I wouldn't have said anything bus since you brought it up...There are well over 100 English translations of the bible already...Makes sense to me that if the people haven't got it by now, it's time to give up...

It is interesting to me that the King James bible is known as the Reformation bible...And scores after scores of bibles make the claim that they are an improvement over the King James, and they keep trying and trying...

[Tax-chick]

Excellent points. My family memorizes from the RSV, and the kids often mention how strange the NAB translations sound, when we hear a passage we know during Mass.

[annalex]

I post daily from Douay-Rheims and Latin Vulgate on your thread.

I use Unbound Bible for all analytical work.

The NAB translation is in my opinion pretty bad. It basically follows the Protestant obfuscatory model in several key passages; I very much hope the Church moves away from it to something more reflective of the original Gospel.

[Salvation]

Thanks, It wasn't there at the very beginning of that FR of the Day thread. dansangel had it saved with another company as I recall and was able to retrieve it.

[Salvation]

Thanks, annalex, for the links.

**I very much hope the Church moves away from it to something more reflective of the original Gospel.**

Agree with you completely here.

[RobbyS]

Useless. It's their baby even though it has two heads. The bishop who heads the liturgical committee is fighting like heck to keep Rome from changing its diaper.

[siunevada]

Can you tell me the name of the article/publication you read, or provide a link? I'd like to read it.

Sorry, I have no idea. It's been quite a while.

[whispering out loud]

I do not have a problem with the Catholic church in General, nor do I wish to trash the Catholic church. I do however have a problem with the concept that the only way to Christianity is to submit yourself to the authority and teachings of the Catholic church, and the Pope. I personally have served in several different denominations, and currently serve in a Baptist church. As well I have several Catholic friends, and we share a deep mutual respect to each others religious values, as well as several doctrinal similarities. My concept is as long as you can respect me as a Christian, I respect you as a Christian, when one attempts to exclude me as a Christian solely because I worship under a different church sign, then they exclude only themselves. "Ga 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." My deepest regards, and I hope we can come to terms on this point.

[bornacatholic]

I have the old Challoner Douai Rheims, the Navarre Bible collection, and, bestof all imo, Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, the 1952 edition edited by Dom Orchard. Its great and can be found doing a search on used books. I got my copy from Australia years ago

[bornacatholic]

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html

[Knitting A Conundrum]

I'll have to look for the commentary.

[whispering out loud]

Though I appreciate your attempt, we've been down this road several times, nothing new here. If the Catholic church was the same church that existed in the event of Christ death I would have no problems with this, but I see several deviations from fundamental base Christian doctrine. Most of these taking place with the confirmation of Constantine, the only documents any of you ever bring to dispute these concepts is Catholic writings which lost credibility with me when these deviations took place. The concepts of kneeling before, praying to, and even worshiping Mary and the saints. The Bible is clear that all of our worship, and allegiance belongs to Christ alone. Even Peter himself told the early saints not to kneel to him. several of the sacraments, and traditions of the Catholic church have been taken from pagan religions, and most of these go against the Holy scriptures upon which the very church is supposed to be based. Not only do we see Catholics kneeling before Mary and "the saints", but we see them kneeling before Graven images of these. The scriptures themselves say that we should not make unto ourselves and graven images. Once again my friend I don't deny authority of the church, I just don't believe that the sole authority lies in the Catholic church, but lies in the God head, and is governed among all churches that follow the scriptures, and call upon the name of Christ.

[whispering out loud]

My apologies if my mail to you offended you, I was just trying to explain one of the reasons some of these "flame wars" occur, though I have only been involved in few of these, the only reason I was ever involved is for the very reasons I sited to you in the said freep mail.

[AlaninSA]

"The concepts of kneeling before, praying to, and even worshiping Mary and the saints. "

---

We don't worship Mary or the Saints. We've been down this road several times, too. There are prayers of intercession and this means that we're asking for the prayers of Mary and the Saints -- asking a neighbor or loved one for help is not the same as worship. I certainly did not "worship" the guy next door when I asked for his help on a mechanical issue.

We believe, like many other Christian denominations, that those in Heaven can hear us and offer assistance to us in our times of need.

Note: I am NOT saying "we are right and you are wrong." I'm saying that we have different paths to what should be the same end.

[ventana]

When you take a line like: Hail, Full of Grace, and turn it into You who have found favor with the Lord (or however the NAB renders it-I can't bear to look) you do violence to Catholic Tradition for no good reason. There is no valid reason to reject translating kecharitomene as Full of Grace whatsoever, and thousands of years of tradition to argue against it. Will they be changing the Rosary next?

Is it possible it is willful violence? Sure. Should we be surprised?

[bornacatholic]

Every single word of The New Testament was written by a member of the Catholic Church. Your understanding of the Bible, while I am sure well-intended, is neither authoritative or definitive. The author of any text/texts is the one best qualified to explain its meaning. That is the Catholic Church established by Jesus.

Catholics do not worship Mary or the Saints. Long ago, St. Augustine responded to these accusations by demanding those making that charge prove it.

So, prove it. There are countless old Missals, new missals, you can go to any Catholic Liturgy/Mass and use the missals there to prove your charge.

[Ethan_Allen1777]

Like a lot of bigots they will attack you online but haven't the courage to do so to your face.

[whispering out loud]

Every single word of The New Testament was written by a member of the Catholic Church.

Every word of the New Testament was written by members of the Church, but I have just given my reasons I don't identify that church solely with the modern catholic church.

Catholics do not worship Mary or the Saints. Long ago, St. Augustine responded to these accusations by demanding those making that charge prove it. So, prove it. There are countless old Missals, new missals, you can go to any Catholic Liturgy/Mass and use the missals there to prove your charge.

why then do many Catholics kneel before, and pray to Graven Images of past "saints" and Mary?

were we, or were we not commanded by the very Peter you claim to be the first pope not to kneel before any man?

as well were we not commanded no to make to ourselves any graven images?

[Tax-chick]

I think it's "Oh favored one," and I agree that it's a bad choice to change it.

[AlaninSA]

Fair enough.

I think we'd agree, though, that every translation of the Bible has its own agenda. The KJV is not immune from this criticism.