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To: William Terrell; annalex
You don't make disciples of nations

Why don't you take that up with the translators of the New Testament. The word used "ethnos" (eqnoV) means a large gathering of individuals, a tribe, or a nation (just as American native tribes are considered nations).

The NT says "make disciples of all the nations." I take it that you are correcting the Lord. Good luck!

You might note that few of the great masses of people could read

I have news for you: we still have large numbers of functionally illiterate people with poor reading comprehension skills. The illiteracy in the world is not negligible. Likewise, outside of the prosperous dozen or so developed countries, bibles are not as readily available and affordable to vast multitudes of people 2,000 years after our Lord instructed his newly appointed Church elders to teach the masses what he had taught the Apostles.

So, if the Bible was not written for the masses, obviously it wasn't intended for the masses to interpret it either. Those who subscribe to "each man his own pope" Protestant motto attest to the fragility of such endeavors by the fact that new "denominations" are being formed as "true" churches of Christ ever day, now numbering in tens of thousands and continually atomizing.

Why? Because there are as many opinions as there are individuals. The Faith once delivered by the Lord is not a matter of one's personal opinion or, God forbid, subject to logic or rationalizations.

Clearly, the Lord never intended the nations of believers to read the Bible and teach themselves. There is no biblical reference to "sola scriptura" heresy. It's a man-made tradition of Luther.

146 posted on 11/16/2006 5:56:40 AM PST by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
Clearly, the Lord never intended the nations of believers to read the Bible and teach themselves.

But the people who would seek the Kingdom do read the Bible and do understand it, and the teachings of Jesus were to individuals, about individuals and for individuals. I pointed out the two main teachings a few posts ago.

You do not make a disciples of a nation. If it were true that you could, then making disciples of the officials (individuals) would bind all people in that nation.

Malarkey.

Those who are illiterate today have the Gospels read to them, and hearing, they understand, if they are of that heart. The more, especially in the greater nations, read it themselves. It is up to the individual that he seeks God or not, not to a corporate organization.

This is the stone upon which those churches who claim dominance are broken.

There are indeed as many opinions as there are people but there is only one opinion in the Gospels and it is clear; the authority for the salvation for each man is the responsibility of that man. The only men that pledge their souls to the church are those who refuse that responsibility, and reasonably enough, it is those people and peoples that would let a despotic tyranny to persist in their nation.

All churches are man made, man run and for the purpose of man. The Catholic church is no different, even though it try mightily to impress interpretation on the scriptures to rule over men.

America was founded against the divine right of kings. The notion that the Israelite Davidic royal line was passed to non-Israelites is foolish, and is only found as an impressed interpretation on one passage in one Gospel. The other Gospels are different.

It would have been better if there were some twistable passage that passed the royal line to Paul, since Paul brought the Gospels to the non-Israelites. But there wasn't was there? The church had to make do with Peter thereby causing a scriptural crisis.

The notion that the Catholic, or any, church is the gatekeeper of spiritual salvation itself causes a scriptural crisis.

The only way the church has been able to pass it over was because it taught to ignorant people and babies that believe anything you tell them, unable to read and think for themselves.

The impulse to rule is the foundation of evil in all of history because it is the leadership of people or nation that cause evil to come upon the people. God gave the Israelites over to kings because that is what the people wanted and He would show them the nature of rule by men.

The Catholic church is the legacy of that impulse. But it is fading. The church, being the leader of the unthinking and slavishly accepting man, is the giving way to the thinking man.

You can cite your traditions and clumsily interpreted scripture all you like, but the die is cast.

You can argue with me all you want to, but the scriptures are crystal clear.

150 posted on 11/16/2006 8:25:03 AM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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