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To: kosta50
Clearly, the Lord never intended the nations of believers to read the Bible and teach themselves.

But the people who would seek the Kingdom do read the Bible and do understand it, and the teachings of Jesus were to individuals, about individuals and for individuals. I pointed out the two main teachings a few posts ago.

You do not make a disciples of a nation. If it were true that you could, then making disciples of the officials (individuals) would bind all people in that nation.

Malarkey.

Those who are illiterate today have the Gospels read to them, and hearing, they understand, if they are of that heart. The more, especially in the greater nations, read it themselves. It is up to the individual that he seeks God or not, not to a corporate organization.

This is the stone upon which those churches who claim dominance are broken.

There are indeed as many opinions as there are people but there is only one opinion in the Gospels and it is clear; the authority for the salvation for each man is the responsibility of that man. The only men that pledge their souls to the church are those who refuse that responsibility, and reasonably enough, it is those people and peoples that would let a despotic tyranny to persist in their nation.

All churches are man made, man run and for the purpose of man. The Catholic church is no different, even though it try mightily to impress interpretation on the scriptures to rule over men.

America was founded against the divine right of kings. The notion that the Israelite Davidic royal line was passed to non-Israelites is foolish, and is only found as an impressed interpretation on one passage in one Gospel. The other Gospels are different.

It would have been better if there were some twistable passage that passed the royal line to Paul, since Paul brought the Gospels to the non-Israelites. But there wasn't was there? The church had to make do with Peter thereby causing a scriptural crisis.

The notion that the Catholic, or any, church is the gatekeeper of spiritual salvation itself causes a scriptural crisis.

The only way the church has been able to pass it over was because it taught to ignorant people and babies that believe anything you tell them, unable to read and think for themselves.

The impulse to rule is the foundation of evil in all of history because it is the leadership of people or nation that cause evil to come upon the people. God gave the Israelites over to kings because that is what the people wanted and He would show them the nature of rule by men.

The Catholic church is the legacy of that impulse. But it is fading. The church, being the leader of the unthinking and slavishly accepting man, is the giving way to the thinking man.

You can cite your traditions and clumsily interpreted scripture all you like, but the die is cast.

You can argue with me all you want to, but the scriptures are crystal clear.

150 posted on 11/16/2006 8:25:03 AM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell; annalex
But the people who would seek the Kingdom do read the Bible and do understand it, and the teachings of Jesus were to individuals

Fantasy. He taught mostly to the Apostles. To others He spoke in parables.

You do not make a disciples of a nation

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" [Mat 28:19, NAB]

The Greek original uses the verb maqetusate from maqeteuo (to be a disciple of, to make a disciple, to follow one's teaching). The verb is also in Aorist (future tense).

You are clearly saying the Bible is not saying what it is clearly saying.

Those who are illiterate today have the Gospels read to them, and hearing, they understand, if they are of that heart

If Christ wanted everyone to read the Bible and interpret it as they please He would have made that happen. Instead, He clearly chose not to, but to commission His Apostles to teach others. It was not a Jewish practice to read the Bible and, being a pious Jew, Jesus would have never said otherwise. Sola scriptura is simply not scriptural. Period. It is a Lutheran invention.

This is the stone upon which those churches who claim dominance are broken

Hardly. The only breaking is in the Protestant world where the never-ending search for the "true church" results in ever-increasing "denominations" (somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-plus thousand known ones to this date).

There are indeed as many opinions as there are people but there is only one opinion in the Gospels and it is clear

Not in the Protestant world.

the authority for the salvation for each man is the responsibility of that man

No man has authority to save himself. You do have options. But salvation comes only from God.

The church had to make do with Peter thereby causing a scriptural crisis

LOL!

The notion that the Catholic, or any, church is the gatekeeper of spiritual salvation itself causes a scriptural crisis

LOL!

The only way the church has been able to pass it over was because it taught to ignorant people and babies that believe anything you tell them, unable to read and think for themselves

LOL!

The church, being the leader of the unthinking and slavishly accepting man, is the giving way to the thinking man

Yes, that's obvious, where "thinking man" is the final arbiter of what is God's and what is not, by virtue of reason. Yup, mankind will figure everything out, even God. No lack of pride and arrogance there in our "supreme" ability to understand and know everything and all by creating rationalism as a form of religion.

You can cite your traditions and clumsily interpreted scripture all you like, but the die is cast

This is hysterical!

You can argue with me all you want to, but the scriptures are crystal clear

Sometimes. IN the case of making all nations the disciples of Christ, it is crystal clear indeed. I wish you would see it too.

152 posted on 11/16/2006 9:17:03 AM PST by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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