Will the Pope's Pronouncement Set Ecumenism Back a Hundred Years? (Challenge to Apostolicity)

Progressive Theology ^ | July 07

[Ransomed]

Hi xzins. It is my understanding that the three apostolic Churches of Orthodox, Catholic, and Oriental all claim to be the Church that is in the right, but still holds the others to be apostolic but flawed Churches. Am I wrong about this? Also, do any of these three Churches hold the Anglican Church as being apostolic?

Freegards

[PrezUSA222]

There is one thing everyone is forgetting here. There is one true Church of Christ that he established with His death and the gift of the Holy Spirit 2000 years ago and that is the community of Christians. That is what a true church is. It is not a denomination or a religion. The Church is made up of the Christians of the world. These denominations are merely formal structures for Christians to organize. No denomination, orthodox, roman catholic, or protestant group has it perfect. Protestants broke off of the roman catholic church because they forgot the true meaning of “the Church” and instead were more concerned with following their man-made traditions which ended up and still to this day with some, consume them, among many other reasons. Christ warned us against the traditions of men as a way for the devil to lie and lead us astray and wants us to follow him together with our full hearts and to trust in him and to follow His words and sacred scripture. I am a born-again Christian who attends a Presbyterian church and am currently studying at Catholic University of America in Washington DC. I can tell you as such, and as I am sitting in the capital of the roman catholic church in America, this is nothing new. Remember, this document came from a section of the rcc that was established to deal with what they called heresy by doing what they felt was the “christian thing to do,” (since they are the only so called true-christians under the divine wisdom of the vicar of Christ) by rounding up those who disagreed with them and killed them. Do you think that sounds like the divine wisdom of Christ to you? I think not. Those are the kinds of things that can happen when we stop following God and follow our own way. The devil takes those times and decieves us to do his work. To have ecumenism with the rcc is not possible nor in the best interest of the members of the reformed faith. Until the rcc can refute by scripture the ideals of the reformed faith, to have ecumenism with the rcc would only be sacrificing those core principles of Christianity. Our differences are too great and our basis of faith are not the same. As a friend of mine here at school put it, “I am a catholic before I am a Christian.” Enoguh said. Their allegiance is to the pope, their doctrine and traditions rather than to the Word of God and His grace by faith. According to the rcc, since we have no apostolic succession, our ordinations and sacraments are invalid and therefore the members outside of the rcc can not receive salvation. I am glad the pope did this because it serves as a wake up call to progressive and reformer catholics who did not know that the rcc had this stance and who are truly more committed to the Word of God rather than the laws of the pope. Hopefully this will make them recognize the evilness of this doctrine and push for change.

The key is to remember we are brothers and sisters by faith, not by membership of a certain church. Any so called “church” that says its way or the high way to hell, as the rcc does, is the true heretic and ally of the devil whether they intend to be or not. Christ tells us that is we are born of the water and spirit, our names will be written in the book of life and we will have eternal life. Anyone who tells you differently is not speaking the Truth and it is a lie to bring you away from the glorious gift of the Spirit. “Many will come in my name but will not be of me,” Christ said. Remember that. Those who limit the Kingdom of God by putting made up doctrine, tradition or requirements on faith that are not based in scripture and only fit what they want rather than what God wants will be judged and condemned by their own arrogance.

All the historical information we need as true Christians is the Bible. The lineage of popes and bishops is useless and not important to the furthering of the kingdom of God. We were called as Christians to spread the good news. Not to create a power hungry arrogant religion so it gives us what we want rather than what God wants. The rcc’s new statement has served as a blow to Christian reformers inside the rcc who strive to bring it back to Christ. I hope and pray that they are not discouraged and will continue on their work to open the eyes and hearts of the leaders in the rcc to Christ’s love, truth, wisdom and grace. Just remember fellow Christians, pray often, put your love, faith and trust in God, read the Bible and live a good life for the glory of Him. Don’t ever loose sight of that. That is all He expects. Pick up your cross and follow Him!

[GOP Poet]

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[Gamecock]

Will the Pope's Pronouncement Set Ecumenism Back a Hundred Years?

What ecumenism?

Rome has never budging one inch on the Biblical truth of Sola Fide. Until they agree we are saved by faith alone we will never have one thing in common.

[Hacksaw]

xins HATES when you supply facts....he just doesn’t like to deal with such. Don’t waste your time.

He sure is obsessed with Catholics, but people have always been trying to mind our business. Fortunately (as one who has served), the overwhelming majority of Army chaplains are not similar bigots, in case anyone gets the wrong idea when he identifies himself as one.

[xzins]

similar bigots

Actually, HS, making it personal injures your argument.

You can read through all these threads, and you can find only where I've said that the RCC is a fellow Christian denomination. You can also find where I've disputed different doctrines that they teach.

So far as my military career is concerned, I served my country faithfully for over 20 years. I counseled the living, prayed for the injured, and honored the dead. Many were of no faith group; many were of unusual groups; many were of evangelical groups; many were of historic Protestant groups; many were of other historic Christian groups; and many were Catholic. Not once was I ever accused of proselytism, because not once did I ever engage in it. That is far more than I can say for many on this board.

The need to proselytize is the true test of those who accept others' denominations as truly of the Father.

But, I did stand beside injured Catholics and, because Catholic priests were NOT available, guide them in Catholic prayers printed by their own priests. I did conduct memorial services for their dead. And I did honor and care for their families.

You have no idea what a right shoulder patch really means.

NSDQ

[xzins]

Spiritual succession

As this article points out, the human lineage so valued by the RCC is quite suspect. Additionally, of course, we are told by Paul in his instruction to Timothy:

3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

I would think that mythical lineages would also fit the spirit of that instruction.

In any case, Paul clearly supports the spiritual above the human when he affirms again that God's work is BY FAITH.

As always, sister, your posts as spot on.

[kawaii]

funny then how they chose Lutheran and not Christian.

[xzins]

In Germany it’s called Evangelisch and not Lutheran.

The RCC church down the road from my boyhood home had “Franciscan” on its sign out front. Why would that be? The Othodox Church a few miles away, when it was built about the time I graduated from college, had “Greek” on its sign out front. Why would that be?

[kawaii]

i sincenrely doubt you passed a church and 'greek' was all there was on the sign. but you find many protestant churches which have no mention of Christ but huge mentions of the ACTUAL founders of their faiths.

[xzins]

Where is the word Christ in “Greek Orthodox????”

Where is it in “Roman Catholic?” And what was that stuff about “Franciscan” on the sign I mentioned?

So far as that obviously American sign for the Lutheran Church you posted, it means you did not address at all the fact that it’s called “Evangelische” in Germany.

Now....do you think that the church in Corinth to which Paul wrote his letter had a sign out front?

(And did it say “Roman Catholic” on it anyplace?)

[kawaii]

Orthodox means Correct Worship or Correct Glorification (it’s translated from Pravoslav) the secular meaning comes after and inspired by that.

Are you conceding btw that Lutherans in America worship Luther over Christ?

[kawaii]

i don’t think they had a sign bearing the name of their Elder.

[P-Marlowe]

funny then how they chose Lutheran and not Christian.

Funny then how they chose "Roman Catholic" and not Christian.

[kawaii]

sounds like a beef with the Latins to me...

[P-Marlowe]

Funny how they chose Greek Orthodox and not Christian.

[kawaii]

Orthodox means correct worship or correct glorification or correct prayer. The orthodox were concerned with worshiping God. The lutherans it would follow more concered with worshiping Luther.

[P-Marlowe]

Are you conceding btw that Lutherans in America worship Luther over Christ?

Are you conceeding that you worship St. Gregory over Christ?

[kawaii]

see that whole ‘correct worship’ still in there?

won’t find it on lutheran churches, they’re worried about luther, and about being ‘First’ but not at all worried about putting Christ or wirshipping GOD on their sinage.

[P-Marlowe]

Orthodox means correct worship or correct glorification or correct prayer. The orthodox were concerned with worshiping God. The lutherans it would follow more concered with worshiping Luther.

I find that the "Orthodox" on this forum are the most arrogant of all Christians.

ar·ro·gant(r-gnt)

adj.

1. Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.

2. Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others: an arrogant contempt for the weak. See Synonyms at proud.

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