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To: monkfan; Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50

“Your interpretation has Paul advising them to be good to their enemy so their enemy will suffer. That’s disturbing.”

Jesus said: “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you” (Matt. 5:43–44).

Jesus is saying the best way to destroy an enemy is to befriend him, make him a brother. The Paul gives this instruction: “Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head” (Rom. 12:20). So, the best way to get rid of an enemy is to make him your friend, your brother.

This is why Jesus added: “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?” (Matt. 5:44–46).

Paul’s “coals of fire” are shame, that causes an enemy to burn as David states: Psa 83:14 “As the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountains on fire; So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm. Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD.”

In the seeking the Lord because of the shame caused by meeting their needs, they can become brothers in the Lord. It is not a sentimental emotion of love, it is Elisha leading the blind Syrian Army into the presence of the king where they could be killed and instead feeding them and sending them home well and they become friends and don’t invade again until the deed is forgotten. 2 Kings 6:13-22.

Shame, is a tool, it is leaving it to the Lord to do His will, but it is a product of recognizing evil in the presence of good deeds.


6,338 posted on 09/15/2007 6:49:46 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan; monkfan; Dr. Eckleburg
St. Paul is simply saying that it is not our job to return evil for evil. If any punishment is to be meted, it should be deferred to God.  Burning coals are routinely used in the OT as something unpleasant, so any suggestion that it may be a source of comfort would be contrary to the sources he uses.  There is a presumption, however,  in what St. Paul is saying, namely that God will punish our enemies because they are our enemies. Nothing could be further from the truth.
6,344 posted on 09/15/2007 11:30:50 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg
Your post, bd, and the discussion of "burning coals" overall brought to mind a couple of verses:

The goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance...Romans 2:4

When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him...Proverbs 16:7

Galatians 6 tells us the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. We evidence these qualities only as we abide in Christ Jesus (John 15), and most especially in those situations where our flesh is most tried, most tempted to impatience, retaliation, giving up on loving someone, refusing to repay their evil with good.

Though not all my enemies have ended up at peace with me, I have found it to be true that in manifesting Christ, in walking in the Spirit of the Holy God and not in my flesh, I have seen men who hate my God and myself because I love Him, become men who love my God, or love being around me because I am manifesting His kindness and goodness, His patience and generosity. (I do not do this in my own power, and I am not in any way credited with the results.)

Surely it is the Holy Spirit who "convicts of sin, and righteousness, and judgment," and this, I believe, is the meaning of the "burning coals" upon the head: The enemy/unbeliever starts thinking with either conviction or further hardening of heart, "Gee, I stole that girl's _____ and called her dirty names behind her back and laughed in her face and vandalized her car and tried to get her fired, etc., etc., and here she is offering me a jump start because my battery quit, and handing me a cup of coffee just the way I like it, and letting me use her cell phone to call my _____ and tell them I am running late." Such righteousness in the face of such evil will either convict a soul or harden it. Sometimes the heart will harden first, then soften later. Sometimes you just can't win, no matter what (it's in God's hands, not ours), but regardless we are to keep the biblical commandments: "As much as it remains in you, be at peace with all men," and "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good" (Rom. 12:1). I am not motivated to do this so that men will be burned up, but that men will see the kindness and love of God my Savior, repent and be saved!

Goodness, which is of God alone - whether directly from Himself in Spirit or nature or circumstances to men (and all men are evil), or indirectly through me as His chosen instrument, especially in the face of evil done to me - in producing heat, like the image of the "burning coals on the head," may either melt butter or harden clay; which event occurs is not in my control. Godly sorrow that leads to repentance produces a good kind of pain (2 Cor. 7:10); that kind of "heat" is not be be regretted! That kind of "burning" is the kind that produces purification!

May all the goodness and kindness our Gracious God sends to this wicked world through us produce further righteousness upon the earth, the increase of His government and kingdom, and of peace, to which there never shall be an end, amen!

Let all flesh praise the Lord!

6,345 posted on 09/15/2007 11:43:04 PM PDT by .30Carbine
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To: blue-duncan

The footnotes of my RSV reflect the same:

Regarding Romans 12:19... “The vindication of justice is God’s prerogative, not ours (Dt.32.35). We are neither wise enough nor good enough to punish our enemies justly.”

Regarding Romans 12:20... “To heap burning coals..., is to make the enemy feel ashamed by meeting his evil with good (Pr.25.21-22).”

Regarding Proverbs 25:21-22... “Heap coals of fire, i.e. torture is less effective than mercy, or the best way to take vengeance on one’s enemy is to be merciful to him (Rom.12.20; Mt.5.44-45).”


The interpretation I’ve been using here is from a book by David Dale entitled “Upon This Rock” (not to be confused with other titles of the same name). Unfortunately, I don’t have it handy as I mailed it to my grandfather. In fact, that’s how I ended up with a copy of “Manual of Reformed Doctrine” by Louis Berkhof, B.D.; we swapped. It’s probably anybody’s guess as to who got the better deal. :)


6,603 posted on 09/18/2007 7:07:10 PM PDT by monkfan
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