New York Catholics visit mosque, learn about Islam

WAPPINGERS FALLS, N.Y. (CNS) -- In late July, carloads of curious Catholics caravanned north from their church to a mosque in the next county.

Three dozen Catholics who regularly attend Mass at the Franciscan Friars of the Atonement's Graymoor Spiritual Life Center in Garrison accepted a Muslim visitor's invitation to attend services at Masjid Al-Noor, his mosque in Wappingers Falls.

Entering the two-story white frame building, the visitors placed their shoes alongside their host's on wire racks lining one wall of the foyer.

The women, already modestly covered from chin to ankle, pulled on scarves to cover their hair. The men were directed through double doors to a large simple, rug-covered room on the first floor and the women were invited upstairs to a balcony overlooking the same prayer room.

The walls of the prayer room were sparsely decorated with metal plaques proclaiming God's greatness in Arabic, a large clock and several bookshelves with various editions of the Quran and devotional books. The front of the room had a small, raised carpeted platform for the imam, the religious scholar who led the service.

People greeted one another quietly and lined up, shoulder to shoulder, in rows that stretched across the room. Everyone faced east, the direction of Mecca, Saudi Arabia, Islam's holy city. Folding chairs in the back of the two prayer areas were used by people who had difficulty sitting and kneeling on the floor, or accomplishing the deep bows that punctuated the prayers.

Muslims are required to pray five times a day and men are obliged to attend a communal service on Fridays. Women are not required to interrupt their routines to go to the mosque for Friday prayer. Three-quarters of the more than 200 people who attended one recent Friday service at Masjid Al-Noor were men.

The 45-minute service was conducted in spoken and intoned Arabic, with three portions in English: a short reflection on the reading from the Quran, intercessory prayers and communal announcements.

At one Friday service, Imam Mohammed Asil Khan chose to speak on a Scripture passage, or "sura," that described the "Miracles of Jesus and the Miracles of Mohammed." He later explained that Muslims consider Jesus to be a prophet, but not divine.

The Catholic visitors told Catholic News Service they were grateful for the opportunity to attend the services and speak with members of the congregation.

"Our hosts were very welcoming and it was insightful to have casual conversation about being Muslim and learning about the diversity within their own community," said Ruth Ann McAndrews.

She was particularly interested in the discussion of the "challenge of instilling each religion's traditions and faith in the youth through Sunday school and after-school programs."

"The thing that struck me," said Dan Donnelly, "was the commonality that pervades. We have significant doctrinal differences. They don't believe in the Trinity or in the divinity of Jesus, but we have a common father who created us and we should all love one another."

He was also intrigued by the lack of a hierarchy and came to a better understanding of the role of the imam.

"I thought of the imams as the priesthood," he said, "but I learned that they are religious scholars who are chosen by the community to be teachers. If an imam is not available, the people can choose another person to lead the service."

Joyce Evans said, "I left there knowing for certain that our faiths could make us closer to each other. Praying with the Muslims can't take anything away from Catholicism. In fact, it enhances my Catholicism to honor them and work with them."

She continued, "You can read about Islam in a book, but to see the fervor of their devotion really touched me and I came away being a better Catholic."

Most of the worshippers at Masjid Al-Noor are Sunni Muslims, although Shiites are welcome and constitute a small percentage of the congregation, according to Imam Khan. There is no official membership roll, he said, so it is hard to estimate the size of the congregation.

The worship community represents 26 different countries and includes a small number of converts. Imam Khan is a Pakistani who holds master's degrees in Arabic and Islamic studies. He has a full-time association with the mosque.

Atonement Father James J. Gardiner, director of the Graymoor Spiritual Life Center, organized the visits, which came out of a December 2006 event at the center.

"At our Advent vespers, we invited people from different traditions to speak. We had Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Christian Missionary Alliance and Muslim speakers," he said. "At the time, Umar H. Ahmad was the president of the Mid-Hudson Islamic Association, which worships at Masjid Al-Noor.

"Dr. Ahmad spoke 'In Praise of Mary' and at the end of his talk he invited the participants to visit his mosque, attend services and enjoy fellowship with the imam and other members of the congregation," the priest said. So two visits were scheduled in July.

Imam Khan expressed interest in making a reciprocal visit to Graymoor. "Quran tells us that how you deal with your neighbors is very important," he said.

The Church teaches that Catholics and Muslims worship the same God, for one thing.

All Christians must teach this, or they do not worship the one true God. He is the God of Abraham as stated in the Bible. Mt 22:32 "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." Muslims worship the God of Abraham. The Church did not make this up in order to "get closer to" Islam.

This is the same God that revealed Himself to Moses. Do we not worship I AM? Mk 14:62 "And Jesus said, 'I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.'"

How do you not see Him as the same God? Please explain. - We all know, including the Church, that Muslims reject Jesus' divinity - but that doesn't take away the fact that all three major religions, including Islam, worship the God revealed as I AM.

How do you not see Him as the same God? Please explain. - We all know, including the Church, that Muslims reject Jesus' divinity - but that doesn't take away the fact that all three major religions, including Islam, worship the God revealed as I AM.

A major point of the Gospel of John is that you cannot worship the Father without worshipping the Son:

John 5:22-23 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

A major point of the Gospel of John is that you cannot worship the Father without worshipping the Son:

John 5:22-23 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

***

There is also no salvation outside of Jesus Christ and His name must be called on only by each individual for there is no other name that may be called upon to be saved - there is only one mediator between man and God, that being Jesus Christ - and the name of Jesus Christ must be confessed as Lord, God, Savior for salvation.

No man comes to the Father but through JESUS CHRIST.
They don’t get there any other way, certainly not by calling on allah do they come before the Father.
There is only one way to the Father, One Way to be saved, One Way to escape eternal separation for God, One Way to avoid eternal damnation and hell and that is only through Jesus Christ and His Name Only.

2Corinthians 6:14

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers:

==> for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?

==> and what communion hath light with darkness?

2Cr 6:15

And what concord hath Christ with Belial?

or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

2Cr 6:16

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?

for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2Cr 6:17

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord,

2John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

2Jo 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:

2Jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

armydoc: A major point of the Gospel of John is that you cannot worship the Father without worshipping the Son.

I agree that the Gospel fulfills the Old Testament. I am a Catholic. You are preaching to the choir. But I need to clarify that Jesus did not say that we cannot "worship" the Father without Himself. He said people cannot "know" the Father or honor Him properly without the Son. Mt 11:27 "neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him."

Jn 5:23" He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him." We should note that honor is not worship. Honor is providing proper respect. (Note: Jesus said this in response to those who wanted to kill him because He talked about forgiving sin. Forgiveness of sin has to do with salvation, not worship or even the value of worship.)

EstherRuth: There is also no salvation outside of Jesus Christ and His name must be called on only by each individual for there is no other name that may be called upon to be saved - there is only one mediator between man and God, that being Jesus Christ - and the name of Jesus Christ must be confessed as Lord, God, Savior for salvation.

I agree that Christ bore all our sins and provides salvation to us and all those in the old testament who awaited the savior. All graces flow from Christ. He is our judge and savior. The Church also professes this. Did the Vatican not just publish the document "Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church" that deals with this. Again you are preaching to the choir.

If you must preach, then preach, I nor the Church will disagree with the truth you speak. And, it may help some folks to learn from what we post. I will try to clarify any questionable statements in charity. But, nothing you have written refutes the fact that Muslims worship the same God as we.

We are on the same page! Muslims are in heresy and will remain so unless they convert. But they do worship the same God as we. Do you have any facts that prove they do not worship the same God. (Note: we all agree (including the Church) that Muslims do not worship Him as Christians (same with the Jews)).

But I need to clarify that Jesus did not say that we cannot "worship" the Father without Himself. He said people cannot "know" the Father or honor Him properly without the Son

Help me here- are you saying that Muslims can "worship" the Father without "knowing" or "honoring" him??

But they do worship the same God as we.

Christians worship the Triune God. Muslims consider us polytheists for this. The Trinity cannot be parsed. One cannot "know", "honor", or "worship" the Father without the Son. Jesus said that the Pharisee's father was the devil, because they did not recognize Jesus as the Son. Muslims themselves see the distinction clearly; they certainly don't believe we worsip the same God. IMHO, this is one of the most dangerous aspects of modern Catholicism.

“What’s interesting is that to most Catholics, we Protestants are an anathema...Even tho we confess Jesus as our Savior...But yet your religion is beginning to cuddle up with muzlims...

And what is the common denominator??? It’s not God in the flesh...It’s not salvation...It’s not the Holy Scripture...

It’s Mary, the Queen of Heaven...That’s your common denominator...You have a common bond and it’s not God...”

Catholics also embrace Mohammad's spiritual wayward daughter, Fatima.
So Catholics and Muslims embrace Fatima ... another distraction AWAY from Christ.

Help me here- are you saying that Muslims can "worship" the Father without "knowing" or "honoring" him??

In a way, yes. But, I should not have used "Father" for He is a person. I should have used "God", as in th one God. That, clarified to be God and not the Father alone, is the same thing the Catholic Church says. It is "worship" and it is to God ... but they eliminate Jesus and therefore the Holy Spirit. That is heresy! This leaves Muslims out of the loop.

But, He is still the same God. God does not change! It is the Muslims' warped approach to God that leaves them in the lurch. They missed/refuse to accept the Word.

Christians worship the Triune God

Again I agree. So does the Catholic Church.

Muslims consider us polytheists for this.

Yep. They do. And I have personally talked to them and that is their contention and what they are taught.

One cannot "know", "honor", or "worship" the Father without the Son.

I agree with this too. And this is not contradicting myself. Words are important. They do not know, honor or worship the Father, the person! Instead they are stuck with the same conception of God as the Jews have (pre Jesus Christ). But, they do know the same God as us, as we know the same God as the Jews. And they do worship God, the one and only God. He is the God revealed in the Old Testament to Adam, Abraham, David, ... And He is the God that the Muslims worship.

Muslims themselves see the distinction clearly; they certainly don't believe we worsip the same God.

If you want to take your point of view from heretics, go right ahead. No one can stop you. Christians on the other hand were there when Islam formed. So were the Jews. We know they broke into their own religion by stealing parts of ours. Mohammed took our religion and the Jew's religion, including our God and twisted them to fit his goals.

Again we are in agreement as to the fact that Islam is a heresy. But, as can be seen their religion is based on the same God we worship. They also worship God - improperly.

What spiritually wayward Fatima?

What’s there to say about her crazy antics? They speak for themselves. The daughter of Mohammad is not someone I’d pray too - so go ahead pray to her - see her in visions and listen to her garbled prophecies ... it’s no different than believing in the Muslim allah and that allah is NOT Christ.

It's not up to me to educate you about Fatima - just another fraud and DETRACTS AWAY FROM CHRIST. You know ... your self appointed moniker ArrogantBustard" fits you well. Good choice!

Nice dodge, nmh, but it didn't work.

Your words: "Catholics also embrace Mohammad's spiritual wayward daughter, Fatima."

That is an accusation against Catholics, which I demand in the Name of Our Lord Jesus Christ that you either substantiate or retract.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

Nice dodge, nmh, but it didn’t work.
Your words: “Catholics also embrace Mohammad’s spiritual wayward daughter, Fatima.”

That is an accusation against Catholics, which I demand in the Name of Our Lord Jesus Christ that you either substantiate or retract.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

What ever you do ... don’t involve Christ’s name.

Not a “dodge” Fatima, the daughter of Mohammand is a false “prohetess”. What more is there to say?

BTW, I find your pious idignation to be hilarious.

Believe pigs fly! It is a choice. Believe in what ever you wish but don’t connect Christ with this nonsense.

Iscool: “What’s interesting is that to most Catholics, we Protestants are an anathema...Even tho we confess Jesus as our Savior...But yet your religion is beginning to cuddle up with muzlims...
And what is the common denominator??? It’s not God in the flesh...It’s not salvation...It’s not the Holy Scripture...

It’s Mary, the Queen of Heaven...That’s your common denominator...You have a common bond and it’s not God...”

Yes, Iscool and then to make matter more hilarious they get all uptight when simple truth is spoken about one of many they pray to - Fatima, Mary, Queen of Heaven and many other dead people. So sad ... .

Catholics also embrace Mohammad’s spiritual wayward daughter, Fatima.

So Catholics and Muslims embrace Fatima ... another distraction AWAY from Christ.

Again “ArrogantBustard” I find your moniker to fit you well.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.