Posted on 10/26/2007 9:00:59 PM PDT by topcat54
Replacement theology has become dispensationalism's latest prophetic boogeyman. If you want to end a debate over eschatology, just charge your opponent with holding to replacement theology. What is “replacement theology,” sometimes called “supersessionism,” and why do dispensationalists accuse non-dispensationalists of holding it? Here’s a typical dispensational definition:
Replacement Theology: a theological perspective that teaches that the Jews have been rejected by God and are no longer God’s Chosen People. Those who hold to this view disavow any ethnic future for the Jewish people in connection with the biblical covenants, believing that their spiritual destiny is either to perish or become a part of the new religion that superseded Judaism (whether Christianity or Islam).1
“Replacement theology” is dispensationalism’s trump card in any debate over eschatology because it implies anti-semitism. Hal Lindsey attempted to use this card in his poorly researched and argued The Road to Holocaust.2 He wove an innovative tale implying that anyone who is not a dispensationalist carries the seeds of anti-semitism within his or her prophetic system. This would mean that every Christian prior to 1830 would have been theologically anti-semitic although not personally anti-semtic.
As Peter Leithart and I point out in The Legacy of Hatred Continues,3 it’s dispensationalists who hold to a form of replacement theology since they believe that Israel does not have any prophetic significance this side of the rapture! Prior to the rapture, in terms of dispensational logic, the Church has replaced Israel. This is unquestionably true since God’s prophetic plan for Israel has been postponed until the prophetic time clock starts ticking again at the beginning of Daniel’s 70th week which starts only after the Church is taken to heaven in the so-called rapture. Until then, God is dealing redemptively with the Church. Am I making this up? Consider the following by dispensationalist E. Schuyler English:
An intercalary4 period of history, after Christ’s death and resurrection and the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, has intervened. This is the present age, the Church age. . . . During this time God has not been dealing with Israel nationally, for they have been blinded concerning God’s mercy in Christ. . . . However, God will again deal with Israel as a nation. This will be in Daniel’s seventieth week, a seven-year period yet to come.5
According to English and every other dispensationalist, the Church has replaced Israel until the rapture. The unfulfilled promises made to Israel are not fulfilled until after the Church is taken off the earth. Thomas Ice, one of dispensationalism’s rising stars, admits that the Church replaces Israel this side of the rapture: “We dispensationalists believe that the church has superseded Israel during the current church age, but God has a future time in which He will restore national Israel ‘as the institution for the administration of divine blessings to the world.’”6
Dispensationalists claim that their particular brand of eschatology is the only prophetic system that gives Israel her proper place in redemptive history. This is an odd thing to argue since two-thirds of the Jews will be slaughtered during the post-rapture tribulation, and the world will be nearly destroyed. Charles Ryrie writes in his book The Best is Yet to Come that during this post-rapture period Israel will undergo “the worst bloodbath in Jewish history.”7 The book’s title doesn’t seem to very appropriate considering that during this period of time most of the Jews will die! John Walvoord follows a similar line of argument: “Israel is destined to have a particular time of suffering which will eclipse any thing that it has known in the past. . . . [T]he people of Israel . . . are placing themselves within the vortex of this future whirlwind which will destroy the majority of those living in the land of Palestine.”8 Arnold Fruchtenbaum states that during the Great Tribulation “Israel will suffer tremendous persecution (Matthew 24:15–28; Revelation 12:1–17). As a result of this persecution of the Jewish people, two-thirds are going to be killed.”9
During the time when Israel seems to be at peace with the world, she is really under the domination of the antichrist who will turn on her at the mid-point in the seven-year period. Israel waits more than 2000 years for the promises finally to be fulfilled, and before it happens, two-thirds of them are wiped out. Those who are charged with holding a “replacement theology viewpoint” believe in no inevitable future Jewish bloodbath. In fact, we believe that the Jews will inevitably embrace Jesus as the Messiah this side of the Second Coming. The fulfillment of Zechariah 13:8 is a past event. It may have had its fulfillment in the events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Contrary to dispensationalism’s interpretation of the Olivet Discourse, Jesus' disciples warned the Jewish nation for nearly forty years about the impending judgment (Matt. 3:7; 21:42–46; 22:1–14; 24:15–22). Those who believed Jesus’ words of warning were delivered “from the wrath to come” (1 Thess. 1:10). Those who continued to reject Jesus as the promised Messiah, even though they had been warned for a generation (Matt. 24:34), “wrath has come upon them to the utmost” (1 Thess. 2:16; cf. 1 Thess. 5:1–11; 2 Pet. 3:10–13).
Before critics of replacement theology throw stones, they need to take a look at their own prophetic system and see its many lapses in theology and logic.
Read Part Two of this article...
2. Hal Lindsey, The Road to Holocaust (New York: Bantam Books, 1989). The address for Bantam Books is 666 Fifth Avenue, New York, New York.
3. Gary DeMar and Peter J. Leithart, The Legacy of Hatred Continues: A Response to Hal Lindsey’s The Road to Holocaust (Powder Springs, GA: American Vision, 1989).
4. Inserted into the calendar.
5. E. Schuyler English, A Companion to the New Scofield Reference Bible (New York: Oxford University Press, 1972), 135.
6. Thomas Ice, “The Israel of God,” The Thomas Ice Collection: www.raptureready.com/featured/TheIsraelOfGod.html#_edn3
7. Charles C. Ryrie, The Best is Yet to Come (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1981), 86.
8. John F. Walvoord, Israel in Prophecy (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1962), 107, 113. Emphasis added.
9. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, “The Little Apocalypse of Zechariah,” The End Times Controversy: The Second Coming Under Attack, eds. Tim LaHaye and Thomas Ice (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 2003), 262.
WHAM
Another homer of TRUTH.
Thx.
Wonderful Biblical clarity clearly stated.
Thanks for the TRUTH OF SCRIPTURE at your hand.
Luke 21: 20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then LET THOSE WHO ARE IN JUDEA FLEE TO THE MOUNTAINS, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.
Matthew 24:15-16: “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— then LET THOSE WHO ARE IN JUDEA FLEE TO THE MOUNTAINS.
Clearly, these are not separate events:
“But the abomination of which Daniel writes is that the Emperor Cajus, as history tells, had put his image in the temple at Jerusalem as an idol, for the people to worship, after everything there had been destroyed.”
—Martin Luther, (”Sermon for the Twenty-Fifth Sunday after Trinity; Matthew 24:15-28”
from his Church Postil, first published in 1525)
***There were no Christians in the Old Testament and there will no Christians after the Rapture, since only Christians make up the bride of Christ (Eph.5:30)***
Poor dead Jews!!! They get some dirt and we get the Messiah. I wonder how well this “gospel” works for converting the Jews to the Lord.
***There were no Christians in the Old Testament and there will no Christians after the Rapture, since only Christians make up the bride of Christ (Eph.5:30)***
Poor dead Jews!!! They get some dirt and we get the Messiah. I wonder how well this “gospel” works for converting the Jews to the Lord.
204 posted on 11/06/2007 9:15:12 AM MST by Lord_Calvinus
YHvH's larger plan of salvation, where His People are blinded for a time,
shalom b'shem Yah'shua
in order to bring His salvation to the gentile nations. NAsbU Romans 11:15 For if their ( His Chosen People ) rejection is the reconciliation of the world,
And their ultimate salvation after a period of blindness is guaranteed by YHvH's covenant :
what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
NAsbU Romans 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren,
to be uninformed of this mystery--
so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--
that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until
the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
"THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
27 "THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake,
but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
My complaint, and I think you agree with me, is the fact that MOST Dispensationalists believe and teach that the Jews, who long waited for the Messiah, are told in their “gospel” that they will NEVER get the Messiah.
I believe, as do you, that ALL Israel will be saved. I believe that ALL Israel will be united to their Messiah. But, then, I’m not a Replacementarian, but one who truly believes the Covenants and Promises of God, as you cited from Romans. They are irrevokable. I am thankful that the Lord has grafted the nations into the vine.
Peace to you.
HOGWASH.
1. The tin horn Emporer was NOT ruler of the whole world, every people group; every language group; every tribe. THEREFORE, BIBLICALLY, IT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN HIM. His actions may have hinted at horrors to come but he didn't have what it takes to fit the Biblical ruler involved.
2. He did not live in an era WHEN it is now possible for THE MARK OF THE BEAST to prevent anyone not having it from buying or selling. The technology did not exist then. The Scripture indicates to me that it's not POSSIBLE to buy or sell without it--not mearly not permitted. That only exists in our era, with the chip ID implant so in evidence at a recent big football game. This one issue screams that these are the END TIMES conclusively. This one fact blows all other constructions on prophetic reality out of the water.
3. The desolation will be as no other era/time in history and as no other era/time in the future. The tin horn Emporer could not rise to that level of devastation. The Replacementarian perspective is WRONG AGAIN.
4. The tin horn Emporer did not live in a time when THE TWO WITNESSES SUPERNATURALLY WILL CALL FIRE DOWN FROM HEAVEN; WILL BE SEEN BY EVERY TRIBE, LANGUAGE GROUP, PEOPLE GROUP all around the globe. The Replacementarian perspective is WRONG AGAIN.
5. The Emporer did not live in an era when there were massive numbers of massively dramatic signs in the heavens as in our era.
6. IIRC, the slaughter then was not as massive and efficient as the future one is slated to be . . . and IIRC, there were no elements of supernatural deliverance of any of the victims as are hinted about in the future scenario.
7. The Emporer was NOT satan incarnate nor his false prophet. This fact alone blows the Replacementarian perspective out of the water on this point.
I don't expect any of the Replacementarians to deal remotely adequately with even a fraction of the above. But at least here they are for the fair-minded lurkers to prayerfull ponder. At least 6 of the 7 are deal brakers for the nonsense interpretations so doggedly foisted on these threads.
I believe, as do you, that ALL Israel will be saved. I believe that ALL Israel will be united to their Messiah. But, then, I’m not a Replacementarian, but one who truly believes the Covenants and Promises of God, as you cited from Romans. They are irrevokable. I am thankful that the Lord has grafted the nations into the vine.
= = =
Have you had a Eureka moment? A conversion?
Or is this another case of convoluted logic and interpretation?
I’m glad to read the above . . . please excuse extreme skepticism as to what it means.
But I am open to explanations . . . solid, true ones.
I’m not a Dispensationalists who claims the gospel is that the Jews will NEVER get to have their Messiah. I believe the Promises and Covenants of God. I believe the gospel truth.
I’m not a Dispensationalists who claims the gospel is that the Jews will NEVER get to have their Messiah
= = =
ANOTHER BRAZEN FALSEHOOD.
I don’t recall meeting ANY Dispys who believe that. I certainly believe that THEY WILL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED . . . and believe, and accept Him as Messiah.
"His people?" There has always been only one people, one promise, one family of God -- those whom receive grace through faith. There is no "larger plan." There is only "the plan," ordained by God from before the foundation of the world.
And that plan, whispered in the Old Testament, is now shouted from the New Testament to all men --
"Be not afraid; only believe." -- Mark 5:36
"His people" are not unbelieving Jews nor unbelieving atheists nor unbelieving new-agers nor unbelieving Icelandics.
"His people" are all those who possess faith in Jesus Christ, now and in the days to come. How could Paul be clearer than this...?
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." -- Romans 9:6-8"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Why would anyone continue to glorify the children of the flesh when it is the children of the promise who are counted for the seed, the elect of God?
Ah the same reason they will believe the Zohar, but not the Bible: man is lord of the universe
***ANOTHER BRAZEN FALSEHOOD.
I don’t recall meeting ANY Dispys who believe that. I certainly believe that THEY WILL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED . . . and believe, and accept Him as Messiah.***
Let’s see what Dispensationalists have said on THIS thread....
There were no Christians in the Old Testament and there will no Christians after the Rapture, since only Christians make up the bride of Christ (Eph.5:30) ~ post 198
To which Quix replied: WHAM Another homer of TRUTH.
As can plainly be seen the Dispensationalist gospel is that the OT Jews don’t get to be joined to their Messiah; they only get some dirt.
lol, they don’t know what they believe
I guess I should edit my affirmed text more.
Though technically, he probably has a point on that score. Will we be known as Christians or children of God?
As can plainly be seen the Dispensationalist gospel is that the OT Jews don’t get to be joined to their Messiah; they only get some dirt.
= = =
I still don’t know of a single Dispy who believes that.
Location, location, location
A unsaved Jew today is like an unsaved Gentile, they both die as such.
A saved Jew today is like a saved Gentile, they both die in Christ, as Christians.
Now, The Lord told the Jews that they needed to be 'born again' and could not count on their being 'sons of Abraham' for their salvation.
The only difference is that today, a saved Jew (such as were the Apostles) are no longer considered Jews by God, but are considered part of the body of Christ and are Christians, new creatures in Christ.
After the end of the Church age, it will go back to the way it was before the church age began, there will be saved and unsaved Jews and saved and unsaved Gentiles.
Clearly they are!
For in Matthew, something gets set up in the Temple that causes Desolation.
Nothing is set up in the Temple in Luke.
When the siege began in 70AD, those armies that had circled Jerusalem left for a time and Christians knowing the warning got out.
The Jews didn't and were destroyed.
The warning is Matthew is for Jews living in the Tribulation time who see something happen before the desolation occurs, the abomination being set up in the Temple and they are to told to flee then and don't even go into their houses to get anything.
“But the abomination of which Daniel writes is that the Emperor Cajus, as history tells, had put his image in the temple at Jerusalem as an idol, for the people to worship, after everything there had been destroyed.” —Martin Luther, (”Sermon for the Twenty-Fifth Sunday after Trinity; Matthew 24:15-28” from his Church Postil, first published in 1525)
An Idol being put in after the destruction is not what Matthew says.
It speaks of the people seeing the idol being put in before the destruction.
There was no temple left when the Romans finished with its destruction.
Hadrian put up an idol later after yet a second attack, years later, and actually razed the ground hoping that Jerusalem would never be rebuilt.
Read what the verses actually say and not what you want them to say.
lol, they don’t know what they believe
= = =
Another brazen FALSEHOOD.
We don’t pretend to have God and 100% of every phrase of every prophetic Scripture all sliced and diced into Replacementarian tidy little boxes.
Our God Almighty is bigger than that. He still enjoys some mystery with some puzzle pieces.
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