Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: sr4402

“Therefore, there is utterly, no Free Will available for those outside of Christ to do any good works. And God says they are Spiritually dead, unable to spiritually hear, see or spiritually move because they are dead.”

I don’t think you have proven your premise here. If “there is no free will outside of Christ”, is proven, then it opens up serious questions. But I don’t see that you have proven this.

I would contend that there is free will both within and without Christ, but in different realms. A believer in Christ, still sins and does good things of his own volition. A non Christian can sin as well (though he may not be aware of it as sin) and he can do good things as well.


36 posted on 03/19/2008 11:55:51 AM PDT by rbmillerjr ("bigger government means constricting freedom"....................RWR)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies ]


To: rbmillerjr
If “there is no free will outside of Christ”, is proven, then it opens up serious questions. But I don’t see that you have proven this.

Please keep what I say in context of what I said "there is no free will outside of Christ to do Good Works". "Good Works" is defined in Ephesians 2:10 as "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Those outside of Christ cannot. I.E. they are not free to do "Good Works" before God which will count before God for rewards or toward Salvation because God has not ordained them.

So my point is that Free will for those outside of Christ cannot include "Good Works". Thus you must admit that man's Free Will would be heavily restricted and Free Will not totally Free.

And since God through Paul says "Whatever is not of faith, is Sin", the only recourse to those outside of Christ, what is left of free will, is Sin. Unregenerate man therefore is left with three choices, sin by commission, sin by omission, or sin because it has no faith. Now, according to Man, someone outside of Christ, may look like he is doing "Good Works", but not according to God.

That is why I quote Christ, "In as much as you did not do it to the least of these, you did not do it to me". There are No Good Works, nothing good for Eternity, for those apart from Christ. There are NONE. Also, I argued that God interfered with Saul's journey to Damascus, proving that God can interfere before one is saved and be working on a person before their confession of Salvation. Again a clear interference with Free Will.

Also I refereed to Romans, with "Esau have I hated and Jacob, have I loved" as sure proof. Because God chose Jacob even before they were born. Which is certainly unfair according to the Doctrine of Free Will.

Thus I have shown you from God's word that there is a problem between the doctrine of Free Will and "Good Works", as well as between Free will and God's choosing Jacob over Esau (God's sovereign choice).

Lastly, I brought to you the words of the Savior Himself, in that "NO ONE" can come to Him unless it is permitted by the Father and that He repeated this so there would be no mistake.

It looks like one "Comes to Christ", but the fact is that the Father has ordained and permitted him to come before he even chose. Salivations coin, on one side says "Whoever will" - an invitation, but on the other side says "Elect and chosen from the foundation of the world". Free will is a chimera, it looks like a great thing, but in comparison to what God has done from the very beginning, it is nothing. For it is God who took the spiritually dead, did the heart replacement and mind regeneration and planted faith. All that was not done by man.

Thus, for folks like us in Christ, there is no recourse to say before God "I chose you" and it be the basis of our Salvation. Instead one can only say "You have done it all! And are Worthy of Praise!" "Salvation is of the Lord!" There is no room for boasting. Salvation is not of Man in any way shape or form. It is of God from start to finish and all His sovereign plan.

38 posted on 03/19/2008 1:10:13 PM PDT by sr4402
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson