Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: rbmillerjr
If “there is no free will outside of Christ”, is proven, then it opens up serious questions. But I don’t see that you have proven this.

Please keep what I say in context of what I said "there is no free will outside of Christ to do Good Works". "Good Works" is defined in Ephesians 2:10 as "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Those outside of Christ cannot. I.E. they are not free to do "Good Works" before God which will count before God for rewards or toward Salvation because God has not ordained them.

So my point is that Free will for those outside of Christ cannot include "Good Works". Thus you must admit that man's Free Will would be heavily restricted and Free Will not totally Free.

And since God through Paul says "Whatever is not of faith, is Sin", the only recourse to those outside of Christ, what is left of free will, is Sin. Unregenerate man therefore is left with three choices, sin by commission, sin by omission, or sin because it has no faith. Now, according to Man, someone outside of Christ, may look like he is doing "Good Works", but not according to God.

That is why I quote Christ, "In as much as you did not do it to the least of these, you did not do it to me". There are No Good Works, nothing good for Eternity, for those apart from Christ. There are NONE. Also, I argued that God interfered with Saul's journey to Damascus, proving that God can interfere before one is saved and be working on a person before their confession of Salvation. Again a clear interference with Free Will.

Also I refereed to Romans, with "Esau have I hated and Jacob, have I loved" as sure proof. Because God chose Jacob even before they were born. Which is certainly unfair according to the Doctrine of Free Will.

Thus I have shown you from God's word that there is a problem between the doctrine of Free Will and "Good Works", as well as between Free will and God's choosing Jacob over Esau (God's sovereign choice).

Lastly, I brought to you the words of the Savior Himself, in that "NO ONE" can come to Him unless it is permitted by the Father and that He repeated this so there would be no mistake.

It looks like one "Comes to Christ", but the fact is that the Father has ordained and permitted him to come before he even chose. Salivations coin, on one side says "Whoever will" - an invitation, but on the other side says "Elect and chosen from the foundation of the world". Free will is a chimera, it looks like a great thing, but in comparison to what God has done from the very beginning, it is nothing. For it is God who took the spiritually dead, did the heart replacement and mind regeneration and planted faith. All that was not done by man.

Thus, for folks like us in Christ, there is no recourse to say before God "I chose you" and it be the basis of our Salvation. Instead one can only say "You have done it all! And are Worthy of Praise!" "Salvation is of the Lord!" There is no room for boasting. Salvation is not of Man in any way shape or form. It is of God from start to finish and all His sovereign plan.

38 posted on 03/19/2008 1:10:13 PM PDT by sr4402
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies ]


To: sr4402

bttt


39 posted on 03/19/2008 1:28:59 PM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies ]

To: sr4402

“Those outside of Christ have NO GOOD WORKS to follow them at the Great White Throne Judgment.”

You’re usng circular reasoning by defining in your last post, “GOOD WORKS”, as dephined in Ephesians. But, this is really not the thrust of your argument, so we can dispense with this and concede this point to get to your thrust below.

“Therefore, there is utterly, no Free Will available for those outside of Christ to do any good works.”

As in your restrictive definition, yet there is still free will to choose the Truth of God and his plan for salvation. For He so loved the world that he sent His Son to give the Good News to all the world.

“Thus you must admit that man’s Free Will would be heavily restricted and Free Will not totally Free.”

Absolutely not. A few examples of God’s intervention do not restrict Man’s will to choose The Way. You can’t prove this biblically, nowhere is it stated.

You seem like a true seeker and I bid you peace, but please read Romans again for perspective. Your use of Romans is not the intent of Paul. In his letter, he is seeking to put to rest the claim of Jewish Christians, who insist Gentiles obey the old “law” of circumcision. But Paul makes it clear that there is a New Covenant now for all of the world. The whole intent is to give the plan of salvation to the entire world.

So, there is irony in using Romans to make a claim that our loving God would preselect those who can or cannot attain salvation. Because through Divine Revelation in Romans Our Lord is opening up His plan of salvation all that accept Him and His Plan. Pray on these things and use this holy week leading up to Easter to explore all of Romans and also the Gospel


40 posted on 03/19/2008 2:34:10 PM PDT by rbmillerjr ("bigger government means constricting freedom"....................RWR)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson