Why Evangelicals are Returning to Rome

CIC ^ | April 2008 | Bob DeWaay

[RobbyS]

Maybe the Church that the “Hebrews” (Church in Jerusalem?) knew was not so intangible. . We who believe in the efficacy of the Holy Eucharist as a sacrifice, and we think that the early Church did also, find in that a more than sufficient substitute for the blood sacrifices in the Temple, certainly something more tangible than the prayers offered as sacrifice in the synagogue. Those Protestants who charge Catholics for reverting to Temple Judaism should look at it from our point of view. We see Puritans as reverting to the forms of the Synagogue.

[MarkBsnr]

***The problem for the Catholic apologist is that the words of their own faith betray the errors they believe (which is why these arguments are getting easier for we Bible-believing Christians to assert and clarify Scripturally, yet more difficult for the RCC to refute without resorting to personal attacks, insipid illustrations of bats, and the mocking of Godly men like J. Gresham Machen who knew whom he had believed.) ***

Yet another satan-inspired cultist who created a new ‘christian’ religion based upon his own whims.

I think that I know what Machen believed, based upon his writings and that of the illigitimate organization that he spawned. The portrayal of bats is kind and deferential compared to the harm that he has caused.

[MarkBsnr]

Hello Reggie.

Nice to see that you’re lurking in the wings.

Yep, it’s right that you submit to the Church of Jesus or else you will submit to the church of men.

[MarkBsnr]

***As we Bible-believing Christians have the right (and the duty) to disagree with the errors of Rome while asserting the truth of God’s word.***

So you keep saying but you haven’t identified any thus far.

[Petronski]

Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter XXV. paragraph VI:

There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ: nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the Church against Christ, and all that is called God.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

If only Catholics realized how much time and effort they waste talking about posts that reference other posts concerning different posts...which is all clearly and intentionally deflecting the discussion off the topic and down the rabbit hole of "he said/you said/I said."

Let us concentrate on what Scripture says. We'll all be better for it.

[Petronski]

I’d say that is either your way of saying “Don’t look back to see how I contorted things”

Or it is that your way of saying “Look forward to all the ways I will contort things.”

[MarkBsnr]

***The letters of the Apostles were circulating the churches as soon as they were written.***

Dude; there weren’t any Xerox machines. There weren’t electronic copies emailed out en masse.

There were also hundreds of various writings out there including the Gospel of Judas. The Church was the entity that determined what the Bible was.

***If you’ve got a “manual”, then I suggest you get a Bible and start reading.***

The Bible is our gift to you. I’m a little disappointed in the level of your gratitude, though.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

There was NO Catholic church in the first century.

Amen. No Roman Catholic church. The church at Rome did not assert itself until the sixth century.

There has always been the catholic, or universal church of Jesus Christ, made up of all those who are His.

[Petronski]

The church at Rome did not assert itself until the sixth century.

LOL

Next week the Catholic-haters will be saying it was the seventh or eighth century.

[MarkBsnr]

***If only Catholics realized how much time and effort they waste talking about posts that reference other posts concerning different posts...which is all clearly and intentionally deflecting the discussion off the topic and down the rabbit hole of “he said/you said/I said.”***

In other words, please don’t reference any of Dr. E.’s posts in which she gets things wrong.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

***The church at Rome wrote the Bible!!!***

For the tragically simple, the situation is this: The Bible was put together by the Church about 300 years after Jesus ascended, not by a rabble of accountants in 1936.

And it should be obvious to all but the tragically blind that "writing the Bible" is not the same as "putting the Bible together."

[hosepipe]

[ you may wish to consider what Scripture is. It is what we wrote as an accompanying manual for the teachings of the Church. ]

You just CUT the Holy SPirit right out of the loop.. OR made him a drone, a doofus, a janitor, a worker in the Hive, an editor, a publistist, a waiter, dish washer, valet, butler, enabler, or worse NOT NEEDED AT ALL...

Then everybody(at Mass) Acting like the wafer becomes Jesus flesh and the wine becomes Jesus blood as surely as a trip to OZ.. If the Holy Spirit did not show up WHO WOULD NOTICE or even KNOW..

Answer.... NOBODY..

[MarkBsnr]

I think that you’ve touched a nerve.

There does seem to be little difference in the bleating pronouncements of the anti Americans and in the bleating pronouncements of the anti Catholics.

Woof.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Nice of you to answer it once. How do you handle that passage in the WCF? Do you ignore it?

Huh? By your own sentence, you just said I answered your question. Now you're asking it again?

the answer is still the same. Ratzinger does nothing to disprove the clain in the WCF.

[Petronski]

And it should be obvious to all but the tragically blind that "writing the Bible" is not the same as "putting the Bible together."

All of the Bible is the inspired Word of God. In the case of the New Testament, the writers were the saints of the early Church founded by Christ: the Catholic Church.

[MarkBsnr]

Ah, we have Bibliolatry; the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible and the Catholics suppressed it.

You wouldn’t mind putting together a chronology of the Bible over the first 400 years would you? Just to see how it differs from reality, that is.

[swmobuffalo]

Not a dude. The only “gift” I need, I already have. Thanks, but no thanks.

[MarkBsnr]

***You just CUT the Holy SPirit right out of the loop.. OR made him a drone, a doofus, a janitor, a worker in the Hive, an editor, a publistist, a waiter, dish washer, valet, butler, enabler, or worse NOT NEEDED AT ALL...***

You know, I don’t remember from our previous conversations whether you are Trinitarian at all.

I will repeat for those of the temporally mentally challenged: Jesus created the Catholic Church and the Holy Spirit commissioned it at Pentecost.

Martin Luther et al walked away from it during the Reformation. How can you dudes claim that you are part of the Church when you voted with your feet (or your ancestors did and you never came back) and turned your backs on the Church? Answer: you can’t. And that is a huge problem and results in a huge chip on some folks’ shoulders.

Resolution: come back to the Church. Problem: a massive ego and a hubris and desire to be one’s own Pope. Give up the ego and the resolution becomes easy.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

We who believe in the efficacy of the Holy Eucharist as a sacrifice

As Christ said, "by your words thou shalt be condemned."

The one-time sacrifice of Christ on the cross has been offered to God and accepted by God for all the sins of Christ's flock.

"But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." -- Hebrews 10:12-18

Thus, the Lord's Supper is a memorial; a sign and seal of the salvation Christ won for us on the cross.

Not a perpetual sacrifice as if the first one wasn't enough.