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To: annalex

For an article sourced from something titled “Biblical Evidence for Catholicism” I find an apparent lack of evidence, Biblical or otherwise.

The author makes his case on the basis that these ideas can coincide with what the Bible says. That’s no more authoritative than Buddhist’s claims that their religion is compatible with Christianity.

As much as I admire those zealous Catholics who oppose abortion and the homosexual agenda, and as much as I want to think of Catholics as my Christian brethren, postings like these tend to affirm the common Protestant criticisms of Catholicism rather than serve as the intended, effective apologetic.

Not one point is authoritatively supported by scripture, while many are outright contradictions to the clear teachings of the Bible. And the author cites the silence or apparent ambiguity of scripture, not as a difficulty in defending Catholic doctrine and practices, but as if this provides some sort of cover for their allowance.

The most egregious of errors promoted here is that Christ is not central to the doctrines or practices being advocated. Christ is what all scripture is about, and this is the key to understanding its meaning. Christ is the savior of mankind, including Mary.

To elevate her as THE channel of ALL grace is to twist and contort the plain meaning of scriptural teaching on grace beyond all recognition. It is in keeping with the disciples carnal behavior while still in their ignorance when they debated who would be the greatest. And it is like when Peter in his ignorance wanted to make tents for Elijah and Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration. Moses, Elijah, the apostles and Mary are all great examples of faith. Yet, now that Christ’s identity has been revealed in His fullness, there is no room for anyone else to glory except in Him.

But this author is stuck in a carnal mindset that predates the Transfiguration, the Cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension, and the Revelation of Christ.


5 posted on 05/12/2008 11:36:24 PM PDT by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: unlearner
Not one point is authoritatively supported by scripture...

What are you calling "authoritatively supported?" Protestant agreement?

Show me a Protestant system of "authentication" that would approve Peter's reading of Scripture in Acts 1:16 and following, THEN we'll talk about the worth of what you call authoritative support.

6 posted on 05/13/2008 12:00:05 AM PDT by papertyger (That's what the little winky-face was for.)
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To: unlearner
As a Reformed (Calvinist) Christian, I am impressed by the clear linkage this writer makes between mariolatry and autosoteriology. The human will is enthroned as ultimate in both cases. "Hail holy queen, enthroned, above?"

When self is ultimate, when one's own will is the key to one's salvation, you realize pretty early that you're damned! It's too flimsy a reed to lean upon. Then, when puberty hits (every male reader know what I'm talking about) and your own thoughts and "observations" are mortal sins, the despair deepens. You start looking for shortcuts to heaven, for alternate paths to salvation -- and "find" them, in the maternal deity, the mother goddess, who can offer you the hope and assurance that God withholds.

Calvinism rejoices in a God who is at the center of the universe. We are liberated from the need to put humanity there -- either in person (autosoteriology) or by proxy (mariolatry).

7 posted on 05/13/2008 1:04:09 AM PDT by RJR_fan (Winners and lovers shape the future. Whiners and losers TRY TO PREDICT IT.)
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To: unlearner

The website contains a blog. This is a blog entry. The entry itself is not dedicated to biblical evidence for Catholicism. You are correct that it does not rely on scripture quotes and presumes that the reader is familiar with the relevant scripture.

Regarding the Holy Scripture vis a vis Catholicism, the situation is this:

Individual interpretations of isolated verses exist that, some Protestants claim, contradict the Catholic doctrines. In fact, only the interpretation is in contradiction, and it is thereby a wrong interpretation, or at least one lacking substantial authority. Such is for example, the putative contradiction of Mary being free from all sin and prooftexts like “all have sinned” in Romans or the fact that she called Christ her Savior. Neither implies Mary sinned.

At times it is not the interpretation of what is in the scripture, but rather imagining things that are not in it. such are for example, things that attempt to prove that Mary had other children because of the use of the word “brother”. This must be where you fault the author for relying on “the silence or apparent ambiguity of scripture [...] as if this provides some sort of cover”. It is true that the scripture does not definitively say that Mary had no sin, or had not marital relations with St. Joseph. This is not “cover” or a “difficulty in defending Catholic doctrine” to point that out.

Often, stuff is alleged against Catholicism that is in fact not taught by Catholicism: that Catholics worship saints or holy objects like pagan gods or idols, they they resacrifice Christ, that they can pay money to get sins absolved, that they invent novel doctrines to contradict old, etc. Then the scripture is brought to bear against these fallacies.

At other times, devotional practices are said to contradict the scripture because they are not described in the scripture, or a similar practice condemned in a different context. That is simply silly; it might make sense for a practitioner of Sola Scriptura to seek “biblical authorization” for various prayers and devotions, but then the concept of Sola Scriptura is itself counter-scriptural.

There is nothing in the scripture that contradicts Catohlicism. It is that simple. And we did not have to censor whole books or mangle translations to say that.

You don’t offer specific criticism, but you mention that some of Catholic practices seem to you “stuck in the carnal mindset” and not centered on Christ. The answer to that is that we are not stuck in the carnal any more that Christ Himself, who chose to be incarnate to suffer carnally and die carnally for us. He also chose one woman — not two or more, and not zero — to bring Him into the carnal world. A prayer to a saint is a prayer to Christ, always. If it doesn’t seem to you that way, well, this is why you are not Catholic, yet.

If you want to discuss any particular scripture that you think contradicts Catholicism, let us do so.


19 posted on 05/13/2008 7:50:32 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: unlearner

Awesome, unlearner! You speak *The Truth,* IMO!


84 posted on 05/14/2008 12:56:35 AM PDT by Beloved Levinite ("HOBo's already done more damage to race relations than Sharpton-Jacko combined.")
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To: unlearner
The most egregious of errors promoted here is that Christ is not central to the doctrines or practices being advocated.

You seem to be criticizing something that is nowhere claimed in the article nor anywhere in the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

194 posted on 05/19/2008 3:12:00 AM PDT by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
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