Posted on 05/17/2008 2:52:18 PM PDT by NYer
I've seen him do that sermon live with a big screen. It's truly "indescribable" the way he starts out with a ping-pong ball and moves on to stars the size of Betelgeuse (Think Twinkle Twinkle Little star.) Then back to the little bity laminin protein.
ping
Well, this is yet another interesting theory, but again it does not seem to fit with the texts upon closer examination. Not to mention that it is rather arrogant to suggest that the translators of the KJV were poor Hebrew scholars. I would venture to guess they were better equipped at the Hebrew language and customs than some of the ersatz "Hebrews" running around today.
But I digress.
In Luke 2:7 we read, "And she brought forth her firstborn Son, and wrapped Him in swaddling cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn". The Greek word translated manger is phatne, as in kai eteken ton uion authV ton prwtotokon kai esparganwsen auton kai aneklinen auton en th fatnh dioti ouk hn autoiV topoV en tw katalumati
Now, if we turn over to the book of Job, we find this interesting passage:
1 "Do you know the time when the wild mountain goats bear young? Or can you mark when the deer gives birth? 2 Can you number the months that they fulfill? Or do you know the time when they bear young? 3 They bow down, They bring forth their young, They deliver their offspring. 4 Their young ones are healthy, They grow strong with grain; They depart and do not return to them. 5 "Who set the wild donkey free? Who loosed the bonds of the onager, 6 Whose home I have made the wilderness, And the barren land his dwelling? 7 He scorns the tumult of the city; He does not heed the shouts of the driver. 8 The range of the mountains is his pasture, And he searches after every green thing. 9 "Will the wild ox be willing to serve you? Will he bed by your manger? 10 Can you bind the wild ox in the furrow with ropes? Or will he plow the valleys behind you? 11 Will you trust him because his strength is great? Or will you leave your labor to him? 12 Will you trust him to bring home your grain, And gather it to your threshing floor? (Job 39)Note verse 9. The Septuagint/LXX reads, boulhsetai de soi monokerwV douleusai h koimhqhnai epi fatnhV sou
The Jews who translated the OT into Greek used the same word phatne to speak in the context of the feeding trough of an ox, not a food shelf in the tabernacle. If that is an accurate translation of Job into Greek, then the English translators of the NT certainly appear correct in translating phatne as manger or feeding trough in Luke 2:7.
I also note a slight twisting of the text when you ask, "why would Jerusalem and Bethlehem be full of "No Vacancy" signs when Joseph and Mary appeared to register?"
Where does the text say anything about Jerusalem being full of "no vacancy signs"? Given the edict by Caesar it is understandable why folks comes to a small village like Bethlehem would have a hard time finding accommodations there. But not mighty Jerusalem which was used to the annual influx of visitors for the festival days. Jerusalem should have been able to easily handle the folks there by Caesar’s edict.
Also, Luke 2:21ff gives a long passage about the experience of Mary and Joseph and the child in Jerusalem, and nothing about the hotel situation.
You also wrote:
As others have pointed out earlier, when Caesar Augustus ordered the census [Luke 2:1] everyone had a year (historical fact) to appear in their own town to register.
If that were the case that they had a year, why would Joseph choose to travel to Bethlehem with a wife 8-9 months pregnant right in the middle of your alleged festival season? It makes no sense, neither it such an explanation required by the text.
To deny this is so....is simply to be clinging to the "anything Jewish is bad" syndrome.
[Luke 6:42]. Sorry, that’s a cheap shot.
From the days of Jesus and Paul the Judaizers have had a chip on their shoulder insofar as they can not admit that the Christ’s body is not an ethnic Jewish entity. We are spiritual children of Abraham and follow the spiritual law of Christ, not the ceremonial law given by Moses to ancient Israel. That law served it purpose for a time. But Christ has come and the universal Church has been relieved of those burdens (Acts 15:10,28). The Church owes a great debt to ancient Israel through which has come the law and the prophets which plainly point us to Christ. But we not longer operate under those ancient and temporary regulations (Heb. 8:13).
I don’t mean to sound harsh, but these theories only make it appear that you have a predetermined theology and you are desperate to fashion the text of the Bible into conformity with that theory.
If you need to denigrate Christian scholarship of the 16th and 17th centuries and advance the theory that there was more that Matthew needed to tell us, it is my opinion that your theory is on very shaky ground. It kinda sounds like the Jesus Seminar in reverse.
See also the LXX of Proverbs 14:4 and Isaiah 1:3.
31 "The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.
Revelation 6:12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
***
sun became black solar eclipse
moon became like blood lunar eclipse
And the stars of heaven fell to the earth meteor shower
Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, global thermonuclear war
Oy!
M
Impossible. You can’t have a solar eclipse and lunar eclipse simultaneously from earth’s vantage point.
And the stars of heaven fell to the earth meteor shower
It does not say meteor showers, it says stars. Do you have to interpret it to say "meteor" because you can’t take the word "stars" literally?
Beside, meteor showers are harmless events. The material that produces a meteor shower is usually about the size of a grain of sand and never reaches the earth.
The Hebrew calendar is a lunar calendar and one section is quite enlightening.
Special Sabbath reading when the new moon falls on a Sunday
Haftorah for Shabbat Erev Rosh Chodesh
I Shmuel (Samuel) 20:18-42 Then Jonathan said to David: "Tomorrow is the New Moon festival. You will be missed, because your seat will be empty. The day after tomorrow, toward evening, go to the place where you hid when this trouble began, and wait by the stone Ezel.
I will shoot three arrows to the side of it, as though I were shooting at a target. Then I will send a boy and say, 'Go, find the arrows.' If I say to him, 'Look, the arrows are on this side of you; bring them here,' then come, because, as surely as HaShem lives, you are safe; there is no danger. But if I say to the boy, 'Look, the arrows are beyond you,' then you must go, because HaShem has sent you away. And about the matter you and I discussed--remember, HaShem is witness between you and me forever."
So David hid in the field, and when the New Moon festival came, the king sat down to eat. He sat in his customary place by the wall, opposite Jonathan, and Abner sat next to Saul, but David's place was empty. Saul said nothing that day, for he thought, "Something must have happened to David to make him ceremonially unclean--surely he is unclean." But the next day, the second day of the month, David's place was empty again.
Then Saul said to his son Jonathan, "Why hasn't the son of Jesse come to the meal, either yesterday or today?" Jonathan answered, "David earnestly asked me for permission to go to Bethlehem. He said, 'Let me go, because our family is observing a sacrifice in the town and my brother has ordered me to be there. If I have found favor in your eyes, let me get away to see my brothers.' That is why he has not come to the king's table." Saul's anger flared up at Jonathan and he said to him, "You son of a perverse and rebellious woman! Don't I know that you have sided with the son of Jesse to your own shame and to the shame of the mother who bore you? As long as the son of Jesse lives on this earth, neither you nor your kingdom will be established. Now send and bring him to me, for he must die!" "Why should he be put to death? What has he done?" Jonathan asked his father. But Saul hurled his spear at him to kill him. Then Jonathan knew that his father intended to kill David.
Jonathan got up from the table in fierce anger; on that second day of the month he did not eat, because he was grieved at his father's shameful treatment of David. In the morning Jonathan went out to the field for his meeting with David. He had a small boy with him, And he said to the boy, "Run and find the arrows I shoot." As the boy ran, he shot an arrow beyond him. When the boy came to the place where Jonathan's arrow had fallen, Jonathan called out after him, "Isn't the arrow beyond you?" Then he shouted, "Hurry! Go quickly! Don't stop!" The boy picked up the arrow and returned to his master. (The boy knew nothing of all this; only Jonathan and David knew.) Then Jonathan gave his weapons to the boy and said, "Go, carry them back to town." After the boy had gone, David got up from the south side [of the stone] and bowed down before Jonathan three times, with his face to the ground. Then they kissed each other and wept together--but David wept the most. Jonathan said to David, "Go in peace, for we have sworn friendship with each other in the name of HaShem, saying, 'HaShem is witness between you and me, and between your descendants and my descendants forever.'" Then David left, and Jonathan went back to the town.
***
Great articles at:
http://www.betemunah.org/
Rosh Chodesh (new moon)
BTW, Ezel means departure.
Could you point out some of those Jewish fables to me....so we'll know exactly what it is you're referring to?
Well, it is part of your theory that the old covenant feast days are still appropriative for the Christ’s body, the Church, and that therefore they have been "attacked and vilified".
Maybe....here also, you could tell me where they were done away with.....so we'll then know that my theory holds no water. If I am using obscure, debatable points to enforce my beliefs....then you should have no problem coming up with clear scripture showing that the Festivals and Sabbaths were eliminated.
You even go so far as to say that Matthew didn’t tell us all he needed to tell us.
Well.....we all know that Matthew wrote in the Hebrew. We also know that there are no Hebrews copies in existence. Are you sure Matthew's entire Gospel has been made available.... as he wrote it?
This was your original statement: Given the care with which Matthew uses the OT to confirm the Messiah ship of Jesus, surely he would have quoted from the OT to demonstrate something as significant as the feast day theory if any such passage existed.
This was my response: One of the problems we have always had is the fact that Matthew was written in the Hebrew.....of which no original text exists.....only Greek copies. We're not sure if what we have......is the entire story. Post #135
Now....if you are positive that the Matthew we have is a faithful representation of the original Hebrew....please answer this question regarding this verse:
[Matthew 28:19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
This event is taking place shortly after the resurrection and Our Lord is speaking to all the eleven Apostles.
Fast forward about eight or nine years and we see this: [Acts 10:44-45] While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
And this: [Acts 11:1-3] And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God. And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him, Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them. (verse 18) When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
The question would be.....does Matthew (the Greek/English) faithfully state the "Great Commission" as it was stipulated in the Hebrew. If so.....then why are the Apostles so dumbfounded and astonished almost a decade later when they hear about Peter's meeting with Cornelius....and the results?
I'll stay with my original statement about Matthew: "I'm not sure if what we have .....is the entire story."
Jesus was born on Sukkot.
Maybe....here also, you could tell me where they were done away with.....
Galatians and Hebrews (among other) attests to this. This has been the testimony of the universal Church for 2000 years. Only a few early heretical sects doubted that truth and sought to perpetuate the Judaizers view of a functional Jewish Church.
Are you sure Matthew's entire Gospel has been made available.... as he wrote it?
I’m absolutely certain that the version of Matthew we have is the one God providentially preserved for His Church. Nothing else really matters, including theories based on allegedly missing Hebrew originals.
The question would be.....does Matthew (the Greek/English) faithfully state the "Great Commission" as it was stipulated in the Hebrew.
What Hebrew are you talking about?
The majority of scholars do not believe there was an original-yet-lost Hebrew/Aramaic Matthew. In fact, even our friend XeniaSt claims there was no Hebrew Matthew here.
I'll stay with my original statement about Matthew: "I'm not sure if what we have .....is the entire story."
Well that’s too bad. The Mormons have the same doubts about our Bible.
I don't think we need to spend much time on this subject as it is common knowledge today that,..... yes......the KJ translators were deficient! Our understanding of the ancient languages is much better today than what it was coming out of the "Dark Ages". No one would dispute that the KJV adds words to scripture (sometimes entire phrases)i.e. [1 John 5:7]
A few more examples: In [Psalm 8:5] there is a very familiar quotation in the KJV: "For Thou hast made him a little lower than the angels." The Hebrew word here is "Elohim" which means "gods." The translators correctly translated this word in Psalm 138:1 --- "Before the gods will I sing praise unto thee." Another example of poor knowledge of the Hebrew by the KJ translators: Psalm 77:2 reads, "My sore ran in the night, and ceased not." This isn't what the text says but this is: "At night I stretched out my untiring hands." This is a far cry from "my sore running at night"!
You know....I could go on and on....but all I would do is make the "KJ Only Crowd" mad at me. I think the KJV is a very bad translation (for use today)....especially since it uses idioms and words not familiar to modern folks. There is nothing sacred about the KJV.
The Greek word translated manger is phatne, as in kai eteken ton uion authV ton prwtotokon kai esparganwsen auton kai aneklinen auton en th fatnh dioti ouk hn autoiV topoV en tw katalumati.
Yup! [Luke 2:12] translates it as manger and it is translated as stall in [Luke 13:15]. So what is it? A temporary shelter for animals.....or a place to put fodder for feeding livestock? Neither! It is a food storage shelf.
Now, if we turn over to the book of Job, we find this interesting passage: 1 "Do you know the time when the wild mountain goats bear young? Or can you mark when the deer gives birth? 2 Can you number the months that they fulfill? Or do you know the time when they bear young? 3 They bow down, They bring forth their young, They deliver their offspring. 4 Their young ones are healthy, They grow strong with grain; They depart and do not return to them. 5 "Who set the wild donkey free? Who loosed the bonds of the onager, 6 Whose home I have made the wilderness, And the barren land his dwelling? 7 He scorns the tumult of the city; He does not heed the shouts of the driver. 8 The range of the mountains is his pasture, And he searches after every green thing. 9 "Will the wild ox be willing to serve you? Will he bed by your manger? 10 Can you bind the wild ox in the furrow with ropes? Or will he plow the valleys behind you? 11 Will you trust him because his strength is great? Or will you leave your labor to him? 12 Will you trust him to bring home your grain, And gather it to your threshing floor? (Job 39)
Jewish Publication Society [Job 39:9] Will the wild-ox be willing to serve thee? Or will he abide by thy crib?
Young's Literal Translation [Job 39:9] Is a Reem willing to serve thee? Doth he lodge by thy crib?
Crib: Hebrew translation.....not Greek: Strong's #18 'ebuwc (-aybooce')a manger, stall or crib. Out of these three choices for the word used in [Job 39:9] which one......to you......describes a thing for storing food?
Where does the text say anything about Jerusalem being full of "no vacancy signs"? Given the edict by Caesar it is understandable why folks comes to a small village like Bethlehem would have a hard time finding accommodations there. But not mighty Jerusalem which was used to the annual influx of visitors for the festival days. Jerusalem should have been able to easily handle the folks there by Caesar’s edict.
Well....you sometimes use "literary license" when you write. How about "No Room In The Inn"? The population of Jerusalem has been estimated to be normally 120,000 folks in those days. With the population temporarily swelling to over two million for the commanded three Festivals yearly...I'm almost positive there would be "No Room In The Inn" there also.
Also, Luke 2:21ff gives a long passage about the experience of Mary and Joseph and the child in Jerusalem, and nothing about the hotel situation.
I don't think they would have been there more than a few hours. It was the eighth day and He was to be consecrated before The Lord in the temple and soon after wards....they left [Luke 2:39].
If that were the case that they had a year, why would Joseph choose to travel to Bethlehem with a wife 8-9 months pregnant right in the middle of your alleged festival season? It makes no sense, neither it such an explanation required by the text.
Because a devout Hebrew male was to present himself in Jerusalem three times yearly and it was nine months from Our Lord's conception at Chanukah.....so Joseph, not wanting to leave Mary home alone.....and figuring he could kill two birds with one stone (register for the census and be present for the festival).....brought her along! I'm sure they were there for Pesach and Shavuot also....earlier!
From the days of Jesus and Paul the Judaizers have had a chip on their shoulder insofar as they can not admit that the Christ’s body is not an ethnic Jewish entity. We are spiritual children of Abraham and follow the spiritual law of Christ, not the ceremonial law given by Moses to ancient Israel. That law served it purpose for a time. But Christ has come and the universal Church has been relieved of those burdens (Acts 15:10,28). The Church owes a great debt to ancient Israel through which has come the law and the prophets which plainly point us to Christ. But we not longer operate under those ancient and temporary regulations (Heb. 8:13).
[Hebrews 8:13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. So.....in your considered opinion....the New Covenant does away with the Sabbaths and the Festivals? Chapter and verse....please? [Acts 15:10-28] Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them. And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren. And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia. Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; Nope! I couldn't find it in here either.....maybe you can????
I don’t mean to sound harsh, but these theories only make it appear that you have a predetermined theology and you are desperate to fashion the text of the Bible into conformity with that theory.
I don't think you sound harsh at all! In fact I'm enjoying this debate with you. I always enjoy talking to you. We should do it more often. My only "predetermined theology" tells me that the Sabbaths and Festivals of Our Lord God were never done away with. This is something that has been taught by the mainstream church now for 1700 years. The only problem is.....they cannot come up with any scripture that commands that to be the case. It is....and always has been.....tradition!
If you need to denigrate Christian scholarship of the 16th and 17th centuries and advance the theory that there was more that Matthew needed to tell us, it is my opinion that your theory is on very shaky ground. It kinda sounds like the Jesus Seminar in reverse.
You would rather stay with things like the Inquisition.... and Martin Luther's extreme Anti Semitism? This is the background of the Protestant Reformation and I think my beliefs are anchored in more solid ground than that.
What is the Jesus seminar?
Lindsey should be glad we are’nt doing things the Old Testament way. Leviticus spells out quite clearly what should be done with a false prophet — it involves the community, an open field, the false prophet, and a lot of rocks...
No.....you can't get away with that. I want you to show me where the scriptures identify Jewish fables according to Paul [Titus 1:14]. What were the fables (myths) that Paul was speaking of?
Galatians and Hebrews (among other) attests to this.
Oh.....where?
This has been the testimony of the universal Church for 2000 years.
The testimony of the "Universal Church" also speaks of the assumption of Mary; the infallibility of certain humans; the transubstiation.......etc. Why should I pay attention to any more of their fairy tales?
I’m absolutely certain that the version of Matthew we have is the one God providentially preserved for His Church. Nothing else really matters, including theories based on allegedly missing Hebrew originals.
I'm not sure.
What Hebrew are you talking about?
Papias, bishop of Hierapolis, c. 150 A.D. said: "Matthew put down the words of the Lord in the Hebrew language, and others have translated them, each as best he could." Irenaeus (120-202 A.D.) Bishop of Lions, France, wrote: "Matthew, indeed, produced his Gospel written among the Hebrews in their own dialect." Origen (c. 225 A.D.) said: "The first Gospel composed in the Hebrew language, was written by Matthew..for those who came to faith from Judaism." Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea (c. 325 A.D.), wrote: "Matthew had first preached to the Hebrews, and when he was about to go to others also, he transmitted his Gospel in writing in his native language" (Ecclesiastical History III 24, 6). And Jerome, translator of the Scripture into Latin (the Vulgata or Vulgate version), says the same.
Well that’s too bad. The Mormons have the same doubts about our Bible.
They also think that we may not have Matthew's entire gospel? This I did not know!
Genesis 33:17 And Jacob journeyed to Succoth, built himself a house, and made booths for his livestock. Therefore the name of the place is called Succoth.
and the writings…
Nehemiah 8:17 So the whole assembly of those who had returned from the captivity made booths and sat under the booths; for since the days of Joshua the son of Nun until that day the children of Israel had not done so. And there was very great gladness.
***
Great joy, a theme of Succot (Tabernacles).
And O my yes the KJV is a train wreck.
The Shape of the Locusts is a map of the Middle East. (analysis courtesy of TG) First print out a current map, a good one is here - http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/middle_east_pol_2003.jpg
Now rotate the map 90’ so that west becomes north, as it were… God’s view.
Revelation 9
1 Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. 3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6 In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.
7 The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. 8 They had hair like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth. 9 And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running into battle. 10 They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails. Their power was to hurt men five months. 11 And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon. 12 One woe is past. Behold, still two more woes are coming after these things.
***
Horses prepared for battle – Turkey is the rider
Heads were crowns of something like gold – Sinai
Faces were like the faces of men – Jordan
Hair like women’s hair – Lebanon
Teeth were like lions’ – Jordan
Breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings – Iraq
Tails like scorpions – UAE, Somalia
***
And this is just the beginning; just look at all the verses that fill out this picture.
Turkey
Job 41:7 Can you fill his skin with harpoons,Or his head with fishing spears?
The churches of Revelation fill his head!
Which brings us back to Genesis 3…
14 So the LORD God said to the serpent: “ Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”
***
Check the Churches of Rev. map, they form the outline of a foot, and the heel just happens to be Pergamos (see Rev. 2)
1 Samuel 17 has the story of David and Goliath, and the ‘rock’ Petra is located in the forehead of Jordan, my my…which is bowing to Mecca no less.
***
As always there’s lots more!
The Jesus Seminar is (was) a group of extremist left wing theologins who would sit around and vote on which parts of the Gospels were fabricated. I think they ultimately came to the conclusion that only about 10% of Jesus' sayings in the Gospels actually occured. They had nothing to back this up but their own imaginations. They a very fringe group (but got lots of publicity from the MSM) and are considered kooks by mainstream theologins.
Thank you.....I was not aware of that.
My only contention with Matthew was the fact that the Early Fathers had indicated that he wrote in the Hebrew and since no Hebrew manuscripts are available.....are we certain we have the entirety of Matthew?
“Matthew, also called Levi, apostle and aforetimes publican, composed a gospel of Christ at first published in Judea in Hebrew for the sake of those of the circumcision who believed, but this was afterwards translated into Greek though by what author is uncertain. The Hebrew itself has been preserved until the present day in the library at Caesarea which Pamphilus so diligently gathered. I have also had the opportunity of having the volume described to me by the Nazarenes of Beroea, a city of Syria, who use it. In this it is to be noted that wherever the Evangelist, whether on his own account or in the person of our Lord the Saviour quotes the testimony of the Old Testament he does not follow the authority of the translators of the Septuagint but the Hebrew. Wherefore these two forms exist 'Out of Egypt have I called my son,' and 'for he shall be called a Nazarene.' ” (Jerome, Lives of Illustrious Men, chapter 3)
Saint Jerome states that the Hebrew version of Matthew was still in existence during his lifetime in Pamphilus' library at Caesarea. Eusebius was Bishop of Caesarea (about a generation or two before Jerome). Eusebius studied under Pamphilus at Caesarea and he also spoke of Matthew's Gospel in the original Hebrew. Jerome also knew that the Hebrew version of Matthew's Gospel was in use during his lifetime by a certain group of Christians in Syria.)
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