Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
She birthed us all spiritually, that’s my favorite, hard to beat that one
It sure does go both ways. On one thread I was on, a Catholic started the nastiness. And we were having such a good start. Sigh.
Look, Mad Dawg, the scripture says what the scripture says. You can walk around it all you want.
Yeah, that one likes to go around damning Catholics—fellow Christians!—left and right.
One the other hand calling one man "The Holy Father" stretches the point.
And WHOSE “fathers” were they? And what were they trying to establish and defend?
And there are people who are given the gift of healing who are NOT elders of the church.
I’ve been to retreats put on by the Catholic church (yes, believe it or not) and there were priests who had the healing anointing. This was back in the 70’s when the charismatic movement hit the Catholic Church.
I’ve never said they didn’t pass muster because Catholics did it. I doubt any one here even thinks that, Mad Dawg. I wonder if any HERE believed in the gifts of the HS. Do any practice them? I’m interested in knowing that, sincerely.
And there are people who are given the gift of healing who are NOT elders of the church.
I’ve been to retreats put on by the Catholic church (yes, believe it or not) and there were priests who had the healing anointing. This was back in the 70’s when the charismatic movement hit the Catholic Church.
I’ve never said they didn’t pass muster because Catholics did it. I doubt any one here even thinks that, Mad Dawg. I wonder if any HERE believed in the gifts of the HS. Do any practice them? I’m interested in knowing that, sincerely.
If one doesn’t go to the Catholic Church, does that mean they aren’t Christian? Hmmm. I don’t think God feels that way, at all. LOL.
I guess, from what I read, that they’re afraid the houses might be electrically dangerous.
Noooooo. The errors come from putting Mary and the Popes on a big tall pedestal.
“Slick” is insinuating I ever said you used the word “impossible.”
“Dishonest” is another word.
***I know there are spirit-filled Catholics who believe in the gifts of the Spirit and the laying on of hands. I had it happen in our local Catholic church when they had a healing priest there.***
I have visited the Basilica in Carey, Ohio a number of times. Coming to the shrine has been healing for many people. The crutches, and bandages and other items that were left there over the last hundred years are remarkable.
There's no error in that.
It’s anything BUT factual, tyger. Shame on ya.
“The Intercession of the Saints for a Little Girl (Neat Little Story, Catholic Caucus)
America Needs Fatima blog ^ | 6/4/2008 | Robert Ritchie”
But have you considered the free puppy angle?
We call creastors, Christmas Poinsettas and Easter Lillys. That’s when you see them.
***WOW***
Such as these will ever exist.
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