[LeGrande]

I'm telling you, it does make a difference whether the earth is rotating at 1 turn per 24 hours or the sun orbiting the earth at 24 hours per orbit.

Ok lets go back to our transit at dawn experiment. Only this time the earth is fixed and the sun is orbiting the earth. Now as the first light of the sun is seen at the horizon, point the transit at it. Then 8.3 minutes later measure the difference between the apparent edged of the sun and the horizon. You will see a difference of apx 2.1 degrees on the transit. I am assuming that with the sun orbiting the earth you will agree that its apparent position differs from its actual position by 2.1 degrees, right?

Now lets repeat the experiment with the Suns position fixed and the Earth spinning in place. Now as the first light of the sun is seen at the horizon, point the transit at it. Then 8.3 minutes later measure the difference between the apparent edged of the sun and the horizon. You will see a difference of apx 2.1 degrees on the transit. This is the identical experiment and the identical result except that instead of the sun orbiting the earth the earth is spinning. As far as our observations go the results are identical.

There is no difference between the Earth spinning in place or the sun orbiting the earth, the suns apparent position vs actual position is the same.

[Ethan Clive Osgoode]

Now lets repeat the experiment with the Suns position fixed and the Earth spinning in place. Now as the first light of the sun is seen at the horizon, point the transit at it. Then 8.3 minutes later measure the difference between the apparent edged of the sun and the horizon. You will see a difference of apx 2.1 degrees on the transit.

Do the same thing with Saturn and wait 83 minutes. Or with Sirius and wait 8.6 years.

[mrjesse]

Ok lets go back to our transit at dawn experiment. Only this time the earth is fixed and the sun is orbiting the earth. Now as the first light of the sun is seen at the horizon, point the transit at it. Then 8.3 minutes later measure the difference between the apparent edged of the sun and the horizon. You will see a difference of apx 2.1 degrees on the transit.

Sure - but this is only measuring the degrees per 8.3 minutes of angular rotation of the earth. It does not take into account anything else whatsoever!

I am assuming that with the sun orbiting the earth you will agree that its apparent position differs from its actual position by 2.1 degrees, right?

Yup! But only if the sun was orbiting the earth. And in that case, a ring laser gyro would NOT indicate the earth to be turning at 2.1 degrees/8.3 minutes. But the earth IS turning.

Now lets repeat the experiment with the Suns position fixed and the Earth spinning in place. Now as the first light of the sun is seen at the horizon, point the transit at it. Then 8.3 minutes later measure the difference between the apparent edged of the sun and the horizon. You will see a difference of apx 2.1 degrees on the transit. This is the identical experiment and the identical result except that instead of the sun orbiting the earth the earth is spinning. As far as our observations go the results are identical.

The observations are identical because you're only measuring apparent angular rate difference! You're not measuring the difference between actual and optical apparent position! If you were to repeat the experiment with a sundial and a gravitational sundial, it would be as follows: If the earth was turning and the sun was not orbiting, then the two would read same (or 20 arcseconds instead of 2.1 degrees) but if the earth were not turning and the sun orbited it once every 24 hours, then the gravitational sundial would read 2.1 degrees ahead of the optical sundial.

The sun, the light, and the earth are a 3 body system. Remember, you said "The Gyro, LRG and pendulum are essentially the same thing and if you add them in you are adding in a third body" and you said "Light, is the moving part in the LRG"

So if the light in the Laser Ring Gyro is a third body and if it knows that the earth is turning, then the sunlight is also a third body and it knows that the sun is not orbiting the earth. I'm not sure why you can't understand this, but if the sun put out some light and them moved (like if it orbited the earth instead of the earth spinning) then by the time that light got to the earth, its angle would be that of the sun's old position. But if the sun hasn't moved in that 8.3 minutes, the position of the light will still be coming from where the sun is - because the sun will still be where it was!

There is no difference between the Earth spinning in place or the sun orbiting the earth, the suns apparent position vs actual position is the same.

The LRG knows it. The sun's light knows it. There is a difference. Your claim that "In a two body system there is no difference between one body spinning in relation to the other body or one body orbiting a stationary body." is actually very dishonest. It's not true! The only way it would be true is if you worded it like this "Without having any tools to measure which is spinning and which is orbiting, it's not possible to measure which is spinning and which is orbiting." But it's completely dishonest to say that there is "no difference" just because one is barred from using existing tools to measure the difference!

But I still need to my merry go around experiment and see who's right on that one.

Thanks,

-Jesse