Posted on 06/24/2008 6:46:32 AM PDT by NYer
A Roman Catholic Church decision to prohibit a Minneapolis gay pride prayer service has many in the gay community up in arms, leading activists to call the action a troubling and telling sign from the Twin Cities' new archbishop.
The Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis recently told staff members at St. Joan of Arc Church they could not hold their annual gay pride prayer service planned for Wednesday — an event held for several years in conjunction with the annual Twin Cities Pride Celebration, parishioners said.
Instead, the archdiocese suggested a "peace" service with no mention of rights for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people.
"That descriptor (LGBT) was not possible on church property. We suggested they shift it, change the nature of it a little bit, and they did," said archdiocese spokesman Dennis McGrath.
"The reason is quite simply because it was a LGBT pride prayer service, and that is really inimical to the teachings of the Catholic Church."
Officials with the Minneapolis-based Catholic Pastoral Committee on Sexual Minorities, a grass-roots coalition promoting acceptance of gays in the Catholic Church, see the action as an attack by Archbishop John Nienstedt, who took the helm of the archdiocese in May.
In an e-mail to supporters, committee co-founder David McCaffrey called the move "yet another volley of dehumanizing spiritual violence directed at LGBT persons and their families under Archbishop Nienstedt's reign of
McGrath said such assertions were untrue. He said the services had not been canceled in previous years because the archdiocese was not aware of them.
"It was not something that happened because there's a new regime," McGrath said. "If (previous Archbishop Harry Flynn) had known of it, the same thing would have happened."
This year, he said "several people" came to the archdiocese to inform church officials of the event at St. Joan of Arc.
Michael Bayly, executive director of the pastoral committee, was skeptical.
"I find it hard to believe that they didn't know about it. St. Joan of Arc had been very upfront in advertising it in their Web site and on their bulletin. That was always their style — they took pride in welcoming and affirming gay people," Bayly said.
St. John's regular pastor, the Rev. Jim DeBruycker, is on leave until July. His replacement, the Rev. Jim Cassidy, who was faced with the decision of altering the service, did not return a call for comment Monday.
Bayly said he saw signs of an ongoing "chilling effect." Usually, gay-friendly parishes advertise in the "pride guide" in advance of the Twin Cities Pride festival; this year, none did. The 2008 festival is this weekend.
"I think most of the parishes are in a terrible bind," Bayly said.
McGrath said Nienstedt is simply following Catholic doctrine, like previous archbishops.
He said "the church welcomes people with same-sex attractions among its worshippers."
"The distinction is people who fully adapt to the GLBT lifestyle are not permitted to receive the sacraments or be the subject of a prayer service that endorses that lifestyle," McGrath said.
Some in the St. Joan of Arc congregation are troubled.
"I'm sort of split down the middle between being really sad and really angry," said Gerry Sell, who has been a parishioner at the South Minneapolis church since 1965. Sell, married and the mother of six, chaired the 1989 Minnesota task force on lesbian and gay Minnesotans.
"I think that the move is going to resonate with some people, who will say, 'If this is the church, then I'm out.' Not another parish — a different church," said Sell. "Not me. Not at 75 years."
Nienstedt has said homosexuality is a disorder, and he is a leader in the campaign to persuade the Legislature to prohibit same-sex unions.
"Those who actively encourage or promote homosexual acts or such activity within a homosexual lifestyle formally cooperate in a grave evil and, if they do so knowingly and willingly, are guilty of mortal sin," he wrote in a November article in the archdiocese's paper, the Catholic Spirit.
Controversy over LGBT issues also had been an issue with Flynn, Nienstedt's predecessor.
Last year, the then-archbishop prohibited Mass at a symposium exploring the conflict between homosexuality and Catholicism, saying to allow it might mislead archdiocese members into believing the speakers' views had the church's sanction.
In October, authors Robert and Carol Curoe, a lesbian and her Catholic father, were scheduled to speak at the Church of St. Francis Cabrini in Minneapolis, but they were told they could not do so.
And in 2006, Flynn supported a proposed state constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. The year before, Flynn ruled that gay rights supporters could not receive Communion while wearing rainbow-colored sashes because the practice was seen as a protest of Catholic teaching.
You wrote:
“No need to go to that extreme. Just get a Father in there that is willing to give the place a good overhaul!”
Nope. Won’t work. 1) No priest could make that parish orthodox because the parishoners would fight him every step of the way. 2) that would be the waste of a good priest because he would either be murdered or die of stress. 3) we don’t send Catholic priests to tend NON-CATHOLIC flocks, and these people aren’t really Catholic. 4) the abominations need to be cleaned out of that place and destroying the building is the only legal way to do it. 5) inquisition trials and auto-de-fe are not legal remedies in this country (sadly).
Nope. The parish needs to be shut down, the parishoners broken into small groups and re-assigned to orthodox parishes, and the building razed to the ground.
The sad collapse of an apostate church
We've had so many negative thins happen over the years, it boggles the mind!
**The Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis recently told staff members at St. Joan of Arc Church they could not hold their annual gay pride prayer service planned for Wednesday — an event held for several years in conjunction with the annual Twin Cities Pride Celebration, parishioners said.**
Things are a-changin’
We welcome you back.
**Archbishop Nienstedt is doing what all Bishops should be doing, upholding church teachings.**
It will happen. Pope Benedict is replacing many bishops with orthodox bishops as they retire.
Wait until they elevate it to "spiritual terrorism".
If these homosexuals weren’t just doing this for show, they could have their own prayer service. They don’t have to meet in a church and have priest there. But of course, meeting quietly in someone’s home wouldn’t advance their agenda.
Right. That is the direction it’s going. Violence and terrorism are losing their meaning already.
w00t!
“It’s almost as if these things are being done on purpose, in an effort to destroy our faith.”
Almost?
See, that sounds like a perfect new venue for those disaffected types. The Church of Satan!
Interesting he said this:
“Those who actively encourage or promote homosexual acts or such activity within a homosexual lifestyle formally cooperate in a grave evil and, if they do so knowingly and willingly, are guilty of mortal sin,” he wrote in a November article in the archdiocese’s paper, the Catholic Spirit.
Does that mean that there is no Dan Schutte sung in Twin Cities?
“...has many in the gay community up in arms, leading activists to call the action a troubling and telling sign from the Twin Cities’ new archbishop.”
Lord bless your servant who fights so zealously to protect your Word and your Church. Give him the wisdom, courage, faith and hope to battle the demons who will assail him for his love of You. Protect him against all malice. Shield him against all enemies. Cleanse him of all sin, so that his work may continue to glorify You forever.
PS. St. Joan of Arc parish, 815 is calling you.
There are two different levels though that we needed to group them into (from an operational standpoint): the people who wanted to be part of the Church but were radicals and wanted their radical views included, and, the people were trying to force the Church into doing things they knew were poison pills and would drive out real Catholics.
The latter group was the crowd that I got hired to deal with. And they were almost unfailingly atheists or agnostics with personal perversions or outright crimes in their closets and they attacked anything and anyone who either stood a chance of exposing their crimes or disapproving of their aberrant behavior. And most of them hadn't been in a pew in years before they started suddenly demanding that ‘their’ Church conform to their agenda. Oh, and they almost always were unemployed or underemployed types whose lives were a total mess. I have to admit that it was fun to go after those hippie freaks. And it probably wouldn't surprise you to find that parishes were I got the least backup from the local priest happened to be those where the priest ended up disappearing in the housecleaning by JPII. The whole 'those without sin throwing stones' thing pretty much separated out those who were truly honest and those who weren't. The priests who refused to throw down against the interlopers were the ones with the most sins. And while I never ran into Fleger in Chicago, I would bet that he has plenty in his closet.
I am not a Roman Catholic, but I would say this is an encouraging and telling sign.
I think it is all about ego, they think that if they want it or they believe it then it must be Godly.
Everyone at some time justifies their sin but if they are spiritually mature they eventually own up to it and ask for forgiveness and try not to sin again.
These people know they are not going to try to stop doing what they are doing so they NEED to try to prove that their behavior is somehow Godly. And I believe they really know that they are wrong.
Has any of these folks ever considered the Catholic teaching regarding “Pride”? It seems the promotion of Pride, which is correctly understood as vice is inmical to the Catholic Faith.
Pride is the root of all vice/sin and the strongest influence propelling us to sin. Gregory the Great charaterizes it as the sovereign of vices: “Pride, the sovereign of vices, when it has captured and vanquished the heart, forthwith delivers it into the hands of its lieutenants, the seven capital vices, that they may despoil it and produce vices of all kinds.” Pride is rebellion — the rejection of God’s authority and plan, and the refusal to submit to God and accept his truth. In this sense pride is the root of all sin.
As a particular vice pride is an inordinate desire or love of one’s own excellence. Through pride a person either thinks of himself or herself better than he is, or he thinks he can do things beyond his capability. Pride springs from an exaggerated self-centeredness. In pride a person makes self absolute and central, isolating self from God and others, or using others for the achievement of selfish purposes. Pride leads a person to sin in the pursuit of his own good. Excessive pride may move a person to steal in order to keep up his appearance, or to lie or cheat to better his own reputation. Pride can lead to all sorts of vices, notably presumption, ambition, vainglory, boasting, hypocrisy, strife, and disobedience. The proud person rebels against God and resists God’s efforts to lead him back to virtue.
Humility, which is a person’s recognition of his dependence on God and of his absolute need for submitting himself to God, is the only remedy for pride. Humility is true self-knowledge — regarding oneself as God sees him. It is truth in self-understanding and truth in action. The humble person does not trust in his own strength, but in the power and love of God. True humility is a servant-like quality which enables one to place his life at the service of God and others. The modern notion of humility as feeling inadequate, inferior, incompetent, bad about yourself, or unneeded is unscriptural. True humility involves the readiness to place oneself at the disposal of others, to be a servant for others.
Must we continue to one wonder why Holy Mother Church can never promote “Pride” or any other vice twisted to be virtue?
Has any of these folks ever considered the Catholic teaching regarding “Pride”? It seems the promotion of Pride, which is correctly understood as vice is inmical to the Catholic Faith.
You're absolutely right! Those who are pushing this agenda on us are those who are guilty of this, "the root of all vice/sin and the strongest influence propelling us to sin".
You in Rochester and us in Albany. BTW, Clark and Hubbard are great friends and fellow seminarians. Both will be retiring in 2013, just a few months apart.
The destruction of Sacred Heart borders on criminal. I followed most of it on this web site - DOMUS DEI . Both bishops were appointed at the recommendation of Archbishop Jean Jadot. He concocted a master plan to install young bishops that would eventually be made Cardinals and vote in a future pope who would 'complete' the reform of the Catholic Church. If you have not done so previously, I encourage you to read - Still Proud Of Bishops He Gave U.S.. It has clarified for me why my bishop has taken certain stances. Part of Hubbard's plan is to turn parishes over to Lay Ecclesial Ministers. With a shrinking number of priests, he views them as Sacramental Ministers who move from one parish to another strictly to administer the sacraments. The end result is twofold - demoralized priesthood and no applicants for the seminary. Another freeper was gracious enough to give me this.
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