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4 Theories on the Date of Christmas [Ecumenical]
Black Cordelias ^ | December 2, 2008

Posted on 12/02/2008 10:25:39 AM PST by NYer

nativityscene

Contrary to the popular belief that Christmas was set on Dec. 25 simply to rival a pagan feast, there are at least 4 theories explaining the date from a Christian perspective.  All of them may be true.

Theory 1: Day of Creation and the Conception of Jesus.

David Bennett at Per Christum has an excellent article beginning with this explanation:

The main reason early Christians chose December 25th for the date of Christmas relates to the date of the creation of the world. Jewish thought had placed the date of creation on March 25th, and it was early Christian writer Sextus Julius Africanus who suggested that Christ became incarnate on that date (it makes great symbolic sense!).

According to Sextus Julius, since Christ became incarnate from the moment of his conception, this means that, after 9 months in the Virgin Mary’s womb, Jesus was born on December 25. While the scope of Julius’ influence is unknown, nonetheless, we encounter a Jewish reason why the date of December 25th was chosen for the birth date of Jesus.

Theory 2: Chrisostom:  The Zechariah Connection

Regarding the dating of Christmas, my favorite account comes from the Eastern liturgical great, St. John Chrisostom. Here is a note from NC Times, with the saint’s account of the matter:

Inside the Vatican magazine also supported Dec. 25, citing a report from St. John Chrysostom (patriarch of Constantinople who died in A.D. 407) that Christians had marked Dec. 25 from the early days of the church. Chrysostom had a further argument that modern scholars ignore:

Luke 1 says Zechariah was performing priestly duty in the Temple when an angel told his wife Elizabeth she would bear John the Baptist. During the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, Mary learned about her conception of Jesus and visited Elizabeth “with haste.”

The 24 classes of Jewish priests served one week in the Temple, and Zechariah was in the eighth class. Rabbinical tradition fixed the class on duty when the Temple was destroyed in A.D. 70 and, calculating backward from that, Zechariah’s class would have been serving Oct. 2-9 in 5 B.C. So Mary’s conception visit six months later might have occurred the following March and Jesus’ birth nine months afterward.

“Though it is not a matter of faith, there is no good reason not to accept the tradition” of March 25 conception and Dec. 25 birth, the magazine contended.

Theory 3: Conception and Birth into Heaven

Ken Collins has an excellent summary of this theory on his site.

There is evidence that, some years earlier, Christians had made a sincere attempt to calculate the actual date of Jesus’ birthday. People commonly believe that Christmas was instituted on the date of a pagan holiday to supplant it, but it was actually the other way around. Christmas was there first.

In ancient Judaism, there was a common belief, which ancient Christians inherited, that the prophets of Israel died on the on the same date as their birth or conception. This may be behind the long-standing Christian custom of referring to the date of a martyr’s death as their “birthday in heaven.” According to ancient western calculations, Jesus was crucified on 25 March, so they assumed that 25 March was the date of Jesus’ conception. The Annunciation is still commemorated on that date to this day. Nine months after 25 March leads to 25 December, which would be the birthday of Jesus Christ if all those assumptions and calculations were correct. They aren’t correct, but the fact remains that the date has a Christian origin. footnote

In AD 354, Philocalus wrote a Christian martyrology that dates the nativity of Jesus Christ on December 25, and cites an earlier work as backup. From this we can deduce that Christmas was celebrated on the present date at least as early as AD 335 in Rome.

Theory 4:  Mary Knew, They All Knew

ASimpleSinner is a combox hero on this topic and has the best and most simple answer:

Simpler still, a hopelessly plain-spoken traditionalist priest (Fr. Wolfe, FSSP) came out shooting straight from the hip on this issue.

He asks in a live sermon, “What mother here can forget the date of thier first child’s birth?”

As the Catholic Encylopedia relays “No doubt, the words of St. John (19:27), “and from that hour the disciple took her to his own”, refer not merely to the time between Easter and Pentecost, but they extend to the whole of Mary’s later life.”

Traditions are pretty clear that Mary, our inheritance from the last will & testament of Christ (”Woman, behold your son!” Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” ), remained with the Apostles after Pentecost, encouraging the faithful, and recieving pilgrims.

Think about that. If you lived with the Mother of Our Lord, what would you ask of her? EVERYTHING.

“Mother what was Jesus’ favorite food? When was He born? What games did He play as a child? What were His first words?…”

They knew when His birthday was.

Furhter, we all celebrate it on the same day. People who tell you eastern Christians celebrate it in January are confused by (a) the Epiphany or (b) use of the Julian calendar! From as far East as India to as far West as Spain, it is on the same date on all liturgical calendars. Coincidence?

This has only been doubted in the recent era by folks adhearing to sola scriptura (though the veracity of this date using Biblical evidence is possible!) and modern biblical scholars who rely heavily on a historical critical method that does not consider ancient traditional teachings. The idea that we can’t be sure of the dating of Scripture or what in Scripture is authentic, is just plain odd and foreign to a Catholic.

December 25: Not just a memorial, an actual birthdate.



TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; History
KEYWORDS: christmas; jesus; nativity
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1 posted on 12/02/2008 10:25:39 AM PST by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

Ultimately ... it matters not.


2 posted on 12/02/2008 10:26:17 AM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: NYer

thanks-very interesting


3 posted on 12/02/2008 10:33:52 AM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: NYer
It matters, and it doesn't matter.

In the "big picture" of course the actual date is irrelevant.

But, as the article says, "If you lived with the Mother of Our Lord, what would you ask of her? EVERYTHING. 'Mother, what was Jesus’ favorite food? When was He born? What games did He play as a child? What were His first words?…'”

You want to know as much about your Beloved as you can.

4 posted on 12/02/2008 10:36:07 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse (TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary - recess appointment))
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To: NYer

Interesting theories. But I’d say it’s just as likely that Christians set the date to piss off the pagans.


5 posted on 12/02/2008 10:38:08 AM PST by Bluegrass Conservative
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To: NYer

Mostly it matters to those who call Christians pagan for celebrating it.


6 posted on 12/02/2008 10:40:01 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: NYer
Scratch #1.

Rosh Hashannah is associated with the "Birthday of the World." It is supposed to coincide with the day on which G-d created Adam. Rosh Hashannah occurs in the fall, never close to March 25.

BTW, my non-Christian understanding is that the early Christians chose the date to coincide with the Roman Saturnalia so that their celebration would not be particularly conspicuous.

ML/NJ

7 posted on 12/02/2008 10:59:34 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: NYer
People who tell you eastern Christians celebrate it in January are confused by (a) the Epiphany or (b) use of the Julian calendar!

Yes. The dispute with the East is not about the date of Christmas, but which calendar to use. According to the Julian calendar which the Orthodox use to this day for liturgical purposes, the date of December 25 is on Gregorian January 7. Prior to the synchronization of the calendar with the Catholic West in 1917, any Russian would tell you that he is celebrating Christmas on December 25, and you Westerners just don't know when December 25 is.

8 posted on 12/02/2008 11:11:27 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: ml/nj

The point of the article is that there are plenty explanation for the date of December 25 that are intrinsic to the Christian worldview, and not a result of a pagan influence.


9 posted on 12/02/2008 11:15:10 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: NYer

April 17th


10 posted on 12/02/2008 11:15:19 AM PST by A. Patriot (CZ 52's ROCK)
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To: NYer

I always found it interesting that Luke 2:8 gives us “Now there were shepherds in that region living in the fields and keeping the night watch over their flock.”

Sheep were typically penned up at night or driven into caves. In the spring, however, the shepherds kept them out in the fields because they were birthing lambs (don’t forget Jesus was the “lamb of God).

So unless it was springtime the shepherds would have been home in bed rather than watching over their sheep.


11 posted on 12/02/2008 11:17:31 AM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: NYer

I wonder why the Apostles never celebrated Christ’s birth? And if they did, I wonder why such celebrations are not in the Bible?


12 posted on 12/02/2008 11:45:12 AM PST by AD from SpringBay (We deserve the government we allow.)
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To: AD from SpringBay
I wonder why the Apostles never celebrated Christ’s birth? And if they did, I wonder why such celebrations are not in the Bible?

John says at the end of his Gospel that there is much more that could have been recorded that was not recorded. Just because the Bible does not record the celebration of Jesus' birth doesn't mean such celebrations did not happen. It is not necessary to know the actual calendar date of Jesus' birth to believe in him.

13 posted on 12/02/2008 11:57:57 AM PST by lawdave
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To: NYer
Biblical Dates for the Birth of Yochanan the Immerser and for the Conception and Birth of Yeshua HaMashiach
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

14 posted on 12/02/2008 12:13:12 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 78:35 And they remembered that God was their ROCK, And the Most High God their Redeemer.)
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To: NYer
“Ultimately ... it matters not.”


Yeah, that's right, thanks for the great pic though.

15 posted on 12/02/2008 12:27:38 PM PST by GonzoII ("That they may be one...Father")
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To: NYer

Of course they asked Mary.


16 posted on 12/02/2008 1:51:59 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Wow ... interesting observation! I had never considered that.


17 posted on 12/02/2008 3:23:42 PM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: AD from SpringBay
I wonder why the Apostles never celebrated Christ’s birth? And if they did, I wonder why such celebrations are not in the Bible?

The Apostles celebrated His Resurrection. That is far more important than His birth. IIRC, birthdays were not considered important events in those times. Descendancy was what mattered and still does, in that part of the world as evidenced by Matthew 1:1-17. The first question asked, even today, is "What is your (family) name?"

18 posted on 12/02/2008 3:32:41 PM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: NYer
Jewish thought had placed the date of creation on March 25th

No hostility intended, but this is not true. The Creation season (Ro'sh HaShanah and the week prior) comes in the fall, not the spring.

19 posted on 12/02/2008 3:42:53 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Vayachalom vehinneh sullam mutzav 'artzah, vero'sho maggi`a HaShamaymah . . .)
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To: Straight Vermonter

“I always found it interesting that Luke 2:8 gives us “Now there were shepherds in that region living in the fields and keeping the night watch over their flock.”

Sheep were typically penned up at night or driven into caves. In the spring, however, the shepherds kept them out in the fields because they were birthing lambs (don’t forget Jesus was the “lamb of God).

So unless it was springtime the shepherds would have been home in bed rather than watching over their sheep.”

I have a tendency to agree with you. It might just be that Christ was conceived on Dec 25, rather than born on that date. I wonder how many shepherds would be out watching their flocks in the winter time? It’s an interesting theory. I don’t know enough about all that went on at different times of the year to know for sure. But if Israel has the same seasons as we do in this hemisphere, then it would make sense that He was born at the end of summer.

Again, I don’t know enough to make a real educated guess, but it does make for an interesting debate. It’s one of those mysteries we’ll find out someday.


20 posted on 12/02/2008 4:26:53 PM PST by Not just another dumb blonde
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